Mehlman to Join Holocaust Memorial Council

-

mehlman.jpg
President Bush just appointed former Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman to serve a five-year term on the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Council.
Mehlman wins a few points in my book for trying to expand the reach of the Republican Party and perform genuine outreach to minority communities. His apology to the NAACP on behalf of the Party for its role in exploiting racial divisions was extremely classy and brave.
But let’s be honest: Mehlman is best known for managing President Bush’s re-election campaign in 2004. Specifically, he is responsible for organizing the disastrous Bush/Cheney foreign policy into a series of succinct talking points that framed thoughtful critics as spineless wimps.
Mehlman will be lonely among his peers on the Council as a partisan political operative, though some former officeholders and fundraisers do occupy the post as well.
On its face, there’s nothing directly wrong or immoral about Mehlman’s appointment. Plum, honorary posts are doled out all the time as a form of political patronage – much too often, in my opinion.
And as appointments go, given Mehlman’s efforts to outreach to minorities, there is some logic to this one.
Still, this deeply offends my sensibilities. To re-elect President Bush, Mehlman played on the fears of a nation in its most vulnerable hour.
Mehlman exploited a great human tragedy – the 9/11 attacks – for purely political purposes. That he will be the public face for the commemoration of an even more ghastly human tragedy seems sadly ironic.
– Scott Paul

Comments

113 comments on “Mehlman to Join Holocaust Memorial Council

  1. MP says:

    POA yelps: “You’re a fuckin’ liar. Lets see the post.”
    No I’m not–you go look at the post.
    I’m tired of bird-dogging your posts only to have you deny that they say what they say.

    Reply

  2. PissedOffAmerican says:

    “In the middle of the book-ends were valid points that had been raised many times by many different posters. POA’s response was to criticize the anti-Semitic remarks but point us to the “good” and “valid” in what she had to say.”
    You’re a fuckin’ liar. Lets see the post.

    Reply

  3. MP says:

    GAD writes: “Iran, you are next!”
    Can’t quite tell if you’re being sarcastic here…but I most definitely do NOT support bombing Iran.

    Reply

  4. MP says:

    Sandy on Krugman and Blumenthal: “Read a couple of their recent columns, if you will, and get back to me on how you think they are anti-Semites…for daring to criticize the party-line.”
    You’ll be waiting a long time for that response. I read them whenever I can. They don’t try to impeach John Stewart’s credibility by digging into his real–Jewish–name. Or any of the other stuff you’ll find in Ron’s posts.

    Reply

  5. GLAD says:

    I’ve read all the comments on this thread and have come to the unanimous decision that the Jews have won the commentary hands down. That last flurry of 8 consecutive posts by MP that culminated in one hell of a round house right KO’ed the goys of hate who troll these threads.
    Iran, you are next!

    Reply

  6. MP says:

    Carroll writes: “I am afraid you are the dummy in this one. I have to say your comment smacks of the typical censor troll found on so many discussion of Isr-Pal.
    ME: Or of someone who violently disagrees with you. K did make at least one good point, re AIPAC’s influence on the public.
    Let’s review the “dynamics” of the usual Isr-US-AIPAC-Jewish debate.
    ME: Why not review the one WE usually have HERE? I would say it works a little differently.
    The public sentiment is running about 70% critical and not in support of Israel and the AIPAC-Congress connection and comments reflect that.
    ME: See Kathleen’s cogent and untoll-like challenge to this statement.
    The Lebanon bombing and congress’s craven support of it being the final straw and not only on this site but on all that aren’t totally right wing jewish or fundie.
    ME: I would agree, but I’d be interested in seeing some polls on this. I tend to think (without proof) that most Americans see the ME as a hornet’s nest of ancient hatreds with no side having unsullied hands. But that’s just a guess.
    So the pro Israeli crowd plays “Offense” by pulling the anti-semite card to force the critics of Isr-AIPAC to play “Defense” and waste space and time explaining why what they said wasn’t anti-semitic and why they aren’t anti-semites until the original point of their comment is blurred and lost. Historically from what I have seen 99 times out of a hundred the ‘insulting slur’ isn’t justified.
    ME: Historically, on these threads very FEW people throw the anti-Semite card and they do it seldom. In fact, most posts here are neutral to negative on Israel. Again, a guess from my daily treading.
    In the two true anti-semite rants I have seen on here the offenders were called out by most of the other commenters including POA who in his posts has made it crystal clear a thousand times that this is not about “The Jews’.
    ME: Yes, POA is good about that, and I believe him. However, I don’t always agree with his perspective.
    I don’t know which GRG comment you are referring to but I saw nothing to indicate a “hatred” of jews…he specifically used the term “zionist” which has come to pretty much stand for the hard line Israeli-AIPAC view
    ME: Only among people who oppose Israel. In fact, “Zionism” means much more than that. How about the GRG comment where he wanted us all to know that Stewart was Liebowitz–that is to say, that he was a Jew?
    and he was talking about their relentless push to have us in a war with Iran..which is absolutely true. As for his claim that the media is weighted with the pro Israeli view…that is also true…you would have to be blind and deaf not to have noticed.
    ME: No–his explicit view was that the media was weighted down with Jews. Go read it. But you have to be able to get the hint and recognize the names when you read the credits.
    In a typical thread it works like this…I can “insult” you the gentile, WASP, European or Palestine humanitarian sympathizer with the anti-semitic slur, but if you “come back at me” with the same type of ethnic or character slur then that too proves you are a anti-semite because you are only attacking my bullshit because I am a jew.
    ME: I think I get what you mean, but I see NO evidence of this on these threads.
    It’s done all the time in online discussions and in public by the Israeli fanatics, to the extent of calling Carter, Walt and Meashemier, Gen Zinni, Gen Clark, former Sen Hollings, Congressman Jim Moran, Scott Ritter, James Bamford, Hans Blixer, Congresswoman McCollum, the Pope, Nixon, the First President Bush, the entire UN and everyone else a anti-semite who critizes Israel and/or the Lobby, not to mention the roll call of self hating Jews who agree with the views expressed here by myself and the majority posters about the Israel-Palestine situtation.
    ME: I grant you all this as true. The Jewish establishment does (wrongly) use anti-Semitism as a bludgeon to stop debate. But again, aren’t we talking about THIS site? And about we read HERE? I can’t respond to or answer for all these discussions.
    And I won’t even touch on the zionist hate sites with pictures of anti-Israel professors and anti-Israel US universities and “American enemies’ of Israel. Or their smear tactics and efforts to ruin or end careers of any academic who dares publish or speak any word critical of Israel, or their collective efforts to censor and prevent all and any discussion of Palestine or the Lobby by threatening with financial ruin by lawsuits and rumor.
    ME: This is just a guess, but I would say most campuses, faculties and students, are sympathetic to the Palestinian cause and critical of Israel. Horowitz and friends aside.
    For whatever strange reason you seem to think people will tolerate this constant barrage of “insults”, “slurs” and “character assassinations” indefinitely without striking back just because they are hurled by Jews.
    MP, although he is not a Lukid zioinist and has made reasonable statements on the Israeli affairs has also made a career on this site of looking for anti-semitism high and low. I don’t think he has accused anyone as a true anti-semite, but his search is always there.
    ME: Actually, when its ugly head pokes out, it’s obvious. No need to go looking for it.
    Anti-semitism is the “hidden reason” for someone’s remark….something someone said “veers toward” anti-semitism……someone’s remarks “reveal something deeper”.
    ME: Carroll, you and I had a long, circular discussion about anti-Semitism many moons ago. I don’t have the heart to repeat it. I agree to disagree with you on this.
    Although he allows “we might not be aware” of our innate anti-semitism … he knows us better than we know ourselves and is sure it is there somewhere lurking in the dark heart of all us gentiles. It’s the specter of the WASP’s, the Europeans, the Muslims bearing down on the jewish victim .
    ME: I will try one last time. Read some Jewish history. That is to say, the part of regular history that pertains to the Jews. It might give you some insight into how and why many Jews think and feel about a variety of things. I have no thoughts about anything “lurking in the dark heart of all of us gentiles.” Virtually of all of my friends and neighbors were and are gentiles.
    Even when there is no there there, there is something there that could be, maybe, might be, possibly be…(considered in the light of jewish history, not our historical reference mind you, but the crystal ball of each Jew’s historical reference which we are suppose to peer into to devine how we must think, act and weigh every word we speak with the jewish feelings foremost and above all in our minds at all times on all issues)…… a glimmer of a acorn of anti-semitism…and he can no more give the anti-semitism ghost than he can give up breathing.
    ME: Carroll, you’re babbling. In school, most of us are taught a general history–the great men, the big events, the big story. But even as GW was crossing the Delaware, lots of other things were going on to other people and other groups of people. No book can cover it all. No course can cover it all. So, you get things like black history, women’s history, labor history, the history of popular movements. We and in Europe tend to view history from the perspective of Europe and what Europeans did. But hey, lots was going on in Asia and Africa and Russia–and all these places and people’s have their “own histories.” This does NOT mean that these other histories aren’t real histories dealing in real facts, real people, real events–or is stuff these folks just made up–it means that you read black, Jewish, Chinese history, you are dividing up the big pie and looking at one slice and its relationship to other slices, since no one can look at it all at once.
    Your buddy Zathras choose to collectively insult everyone on this thread instead of taking specific issue with what he supposedly objected to and in the typical manner of such types implied that censorship was needed to clean up this site of any trash, the trash being all the other posters that don’t cowtow to the Offense-Defense game.
    ME: What Zathras was referring to was obvious–though clearly not to you or others. I’ve tried to inform you. He wasn’t insulting everyone, only those who made the remarks. Mostly Zathras doesn’t aim any of his remarks at anyone–unlike say, POA, who does it about 45% of the time, and is proud of it. I’ve asked him questions, and he hasn’t even responded to those.
    Much of the decades old Jewish refrain is …Americans and Europe let the Jews die,
    ME: They did.
    Americans and Europeans turned their backs on the Jews in the gas chambers,
    ME: They did.
    Americans didn’t take in enough Jews in WWII,
    ME: They didn’t. That’s why many of them headed to Palestine.
    we didn’t bomb the railroad tracks to prevent the train taking jews to the camps despite the fact that it wouldn’t have made the slightest bit of difference since no one could have gotten in there to get them out anyway and the Germans could easily have and would have just lined them up and shot them anywhere
    ME: Maybe; maybe not.
    …..no one has ever done anything for the Jews….and on and on and on and on.
    ME: Sorry, but I don’t hear that last refrain, but I’m sure there are whiners.
    Nice huh?..considering the Jews really would be extinct if America had not entered the war it had to fight on two fronts and had the fate of our own army and billions of people in the world, not just the jews, and all the nations of Europe at stake to consider in their stragety.
    ME: Actually, a lot of Jews had emigrated elsewhere. But I agree, America had a lot more to think about than the Jews.
    Considering there would be no Israel if Truman hadn’t supported it at the UN.
    ME: So? I agree: that was a good move on Truman’s part.
    Considering the fact that Israel would be resting on the bottom of the sea as we speak without US taxpayer and military support.
    ME: Doubtful. The US only began supporting Israel to any appreciable degree in the 1970s. In any event, they’d be doing as well as Jordan or Syria at least.
    Have you ever seen a Jewish organization honor America or Americans collectively or build a museum or memorial to our efforts and our dead during the war and our aid to the jews after the war?
    ME: They are the most patriotic of all Americans. The Jewish American War Veterans honors the national effort and the Jews who contributed to the US effort during WWII. Jews support all such efforts in the same way other Americans do.
    Any acknowledgment to Russia who lost 25 million people?
    ME: Russia served up most of their Jews to slaughter. No need for thanks there.
    Or to Britain? Nope, Britain is number two on their anti-semitic list just under France.
    ME: France also served up their Jews–good Frenchmen and women.
    ME: But, in general, gentiles who risked and sometimes gave their lives to help and save the Jews during WWII are REVERED and honored mightily by Jewish organizations and in Israel.
    Americans have given 1.6 trillion dollars to Israel since it’s inception..without so much as a thank you note to the 98% of American non jewish citizen taxpayers paying the bill.
    ME: You’re starting to babble now, Carroll. We give trillions to to other countries too, including in the ME. Where are the “thank you notes” from them? We saved China’s ass in WWII–where’s the love now?
    Just demands for more, more,more served up with the usual slur of anti-semitism and accusation that No One Ever Did Anything for the Jews.
    ME: Actually, one of the interesting things about Clean Break was their call for financial independence from the US.
    Most Americans are now at the peak of the “enough is enough” of this “attitude.” As the signs say at the air base range near me..”The noise you hear is the sound of freedom.” So you have to pardon the American noise you hear on the Israel issue while we get a few things straight with congress and the jews and the jewish lobby about whether the jewish 2% of this country and AIPAC should be dictating our ME foreign policy to congress or the 98% majority of Americans who do the dying and paying should have some say so about what their country does.
    ME: But it IS Americans who are making the decisions, not Israel.
    And since you made this about the Jews I will leave out mention of the other interest in this like the weapons industry and stick to the subject of your choice in the Israel debate, the Jews and Anti-semitism..
    ME: That’s okay, the “other interests” are hardly ever mentioned anyway, because it’s the “zionists” who are controlling everything.
    After watching and listening to both sides in all this for the past several years I am pretty sure there are just many “anti-gentiles” among the jews as there are “anti-semites” among the gentiles.
    ME: No doubt. Although, most of the Jews I knew of my father’s generation actually wanted to pass as gentiles. Barely anyone I’ve met has known that I was a Jew unless it came up.
    Insults beget insults, if you can’t take it don’t dish it out is a good rule of thumb.
    ME: I can take it–whatever that is supposed to mean–but apparently you can’t. As I say, I see no reason not to call out anti-Semitic remarks or attitudes or thinking when I see it.

    Reply

  7. MP says:

    POA writes: “Fact is, I have changed my opinion on quite a number of issues in the few years I have participated in online forums, and have spoken online with many Americans who have done the same.”
    Really? I’ve been reading your posts for easily a year now. I have NEVER ONCE seen you convinced by anyone’s post, including Scott’s or Steve’s. Find me one post where you said, “Gee, I never thought of that?” or “Maybe I should think about that.” or “Hey, you’ve got a good point there.”
    Of course, once you backed off your accusation that Steve was “on the take”…but that’s it.

    Reply

  8. MP says:

    POA writes: “80% of American Jews, and 76% of Arab Americans, rate President Bush’s handling of the Arab-Israeli conflict as ineffective.
    96% of American Jews, and 91% of Arab Americans, agree that trying to achieve peace is important to U.S. strategic interests.
    68% of American Jews, and 64% of Arab Americans, said that they would be more likely to vote for a candidate who promised to take an active role in the peace process. Only 3% from each community said they would be less likely to vote for such a candidate.”
    I’m in 100% agreement with the poll and the people polled…and POA if, what’s he’s saying by posting this, he’s there too.

    Reply

  9. MP says:

    Sandy writes: “Ron has told us he is married to a Jewish woman and loves her…and his child, or children, by her…very much. You know what, I believe him!
    ME: The fact that Ron has a Jewish wife is immaterial. There were blacks who owned slaves–did that make it okay? Do you actually think that I bow down and genuflect any time a Jew says something about XYZ…or Jews? Ah, no.
    MP has accused him of being an anti-Semite. That is designed, IMHO, to try to discredit….from now on….anything Ron says….anything he offers up….because of his (so-called) built-in bias against all Jews. That, to say the least, seems to me to be a very big contradiction. That’s where he lost me.
    ME: No; it was designed to point out that he was spewing anti-Semitic views. I make no apologies for that. (Remember the part about free speech and democracy being messy?) His bit about John Stewart having changed his name…Zionists don’t change their names; Jews do…pitched a few soft ball questions (in Ron’s view) to Perle…means, I guess, that John is “in on it” too with all his other Jew buddies in Hollywood.
    Sandy, the whole post reeked.

    Reply

  10. MP says:

    Sandy writes: “I doubt any one here (though I can hardly speak for anyone else) is anti-Semitic….that is, hates all Jews just BECAUSE they are Jewish. There are many Jews in my life that I love very much. I would never dream of hurting them.”
    Sandy, you made a number of goods; but I’ll stick with this one for time’s sake. Very anti-Semities SAY they hate Jews…and fewer still say they hate Jews because they are Jewish. Certaintly not in public. (According to a recent book, Bess Truman apparently didn’t want “those people” in her home, but, in general, we’ve moved on from there–in public.)
    Instead, most anti-Semitic tracts don’t use the word hate, but purport to show the hateful things Jews do and thus incite their readers to hate. The Protocols of Zion–recently the subject of a box-office-busting mini-series in Egypt–purports to show how the Jews control everything. The same thing goes for Henry Ford’s The International Jew (still in print and available on Amazon). They peddle ersatz or grossly distorted “facts.”

    Reply

  11. MP says:

    Carroll writes: “Good riddence. Go clean up own whinning, bigoted, hate ridden, navel gazing, nightmare loving, sicko neighborhood.”
    Hmmm. I’ve been reading these comments for over a year now. Zathras has been a regular commentator. Maybe I missed it, but I have NEVER seen Z post anything that even remotely qualifies as “bigoted” or “hate ridden” or “nightmare loving” or even “navel gazing.”
    Maybe it’s time you came back to earth.

    Reply

  12. MP says:

    GRG writes: “EXILED PEOPLE???? I dare any Ashkenazi Jew to take a genetic test and see how much DNA they have in common with a Palestinian.”
    Last I read, they have done and they do do.

    Reply

  13. MP says:

    Carroll writes: “When you defend Israel are you defending their occupation?..their bulldozing homes? I think you said you were opposed those acts. Because by your David Duke example you would be driving the IDF bulldozer when you defend Israel.
    So that makes no sense.”
    Here’s the big difference: The IDF is the legitimate national armed services of a legitimate country. It’s civilian leadership has ordered it to do very bad things, such as the bulldozing. And you’re right: I oppose those actions.
    Similarly, I don’t condemn the US armed forces or the people serving in them…but they are being badly served by their civlian leadership. In that sense, I “support the troops,” but not what they’re doing, except insofar as they are acting on the ground to do right in a bad and untenable situation.
    OTOH, David Duke, and other anti-Semites, serve NO legitimate function except to spread their brand of hatred. And yet, on these threads, it happens that essentially anti-Semitic screeds are picked through for their one or two “good ideas.”
    POA did that a while back with Wendy. She book-ended her remarks with statements like Jewish holidays are about war and are inferior to Christian holidays because they concern just the Jewish people. (That’s a rough recitation; I’d have to go back for the exact quote.) In the middle of the book-ends were valid points that had been raised many times by many different posters. POA’s response was to criticize the anti-Semitic remarks but point us to the “good” and “valid” in what she had to say. And yet the good and valid were far from new.
    The POINT of Wendy’s post were the book-ends, the prominent anti-Semitic features of her post. This is as clear as day. The “facts” were mixed in to give her anti-Semitic views legitimacy and, in effect, to “prove” that they are true.
    That’s how it works: I believe it was MLK said that the truth in the mouth of a liar is a lie. You have to judge the POINT of what is being said–the message and intended effect–not just the facts sprinkled around here and there.

    Reply

  14. SAD says:

    Yo’, MP, dawg! I was talkin’ ’bout a “roe” as in a roe buck as in deer with dong. And the hoeing i bees talkin’ ’bout is as in ho’ like “nappy headed ho.” So cracka you ain’t gonna be puttin’ dat on no cracker. You get whats i bees sayin’ now MP?

    Reply

  15. MP says:

    Clown writes: “We are hard working Americans! Being a clown is not an easy roe to hoe.”
    Well, if you are hoeing roe that is pretty funny…and awfully messy, too. I suggest a small spoon and butter-sized knife instead. You’ll get more on your cracker.

    Reply

  16. career diplomat says:

    Thanks for making my point better than I ever could have, POA!

    Reply

  17. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Good. You’re 100% right. Therefore, theres no need for you to frequent this blog, is there?
    Adios, asshole.

    Reply

  18. Career Diplomat says:

    Obviously, nobody here is capable of or interested in discussing the issues.
    When presented with divergent opinions or “facts,” all I see the usual suspects here do is respond with insults and epithets, but I’m hardly surprised; anger is the stepchild of ignorance.
    “Zathras” is right.

    Reply

  19. easy e says:

    say goodnight career diplomat/winnepager/troll.

    Reply

  20. Career Diplomat says:

    Hmmm… still no substantive answer from POA.
    I’m hardly surprised. This country’s relationship to and with the various countries in the Middle East and our policies throughout are hardly as one-dimensional as his posts here.

    Reply

  21. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Ironic that it is YOU that just posted five ignorant ramblings, isn’t it, asshole? Sorry I disappointed you, but I was out working.

    Reply

  22. Career Diplomat says:

    Hmmm…
    By now I was sure that there would be 5 posts from POA, insulting my character but ignoring the substance of the questions asked.
    I guess it’s easier to call people names than debate serious policy proposals.
    I sure wish I had that luxury ;)

    Reply

  23. SAD says:

    As a clown I must say we DO NOT sit at home and do nothin! We are hard working Americans! Being a clown is not an easy roe to hoe. Those of you who think “oh no, no, no, I’m not a clown,” should just try it someday, all day, what they believe a clown to be, and I bet that they are quite dissatisfied at not being able to bring out that true clown within.
    Go ahead, try it, and then say clowns sit at home and do nothin! It’s a full time job and more, bozo!

    Reply

  24. Career Diplomat says:

    So what do you call it, POA.
    And while we’re at it, what about the arms and military/economic assistance that we sell and provide to Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, SA, Qatar, Yemen, Dubai, Fatah, etc?
    Instead of personal attacks, why don’t you respond to substantive questions with substantive answers?
    For someone who pisses all over these threads and claims to have all the “answers,” when pressed on the details of your policy suggestions, you sure come across as, well… a clown.
    …and that explains why you’re probably sitting home doing nothing.

    Reply

  25. PissedOffAmerican says:

    “Sure sounds like isolationism to me, POA.”
    Stopping selling arms to Israel is “isolationism”?
    Only in the Twilight Zone, clown.
    You were more intelligent as Winnipeger. But, take heart, all is not lost. You are definitely still just as irritating.

    Reply

  26. ... says:

    the usa could use a little isolationism.. there whole history has been one of intervention, for all the ‘right’ reasons of course, lol.

    Reply

  27. Career Diplomat says:

    There is an answer for the United States. Stop supporting Israel’s part in it. Stop arms shipments. Stop military economic assistance.
    Posted by: PissedOffAmerican at June 10, 2007 10:49 AM
    Sure sounds like isolationism to me, POA. I guess you haven’t studied much history. One thing everybody on both sides of the aisle knows is that U.S disengagement in the Middle East is by far the worst possible scenario.
    Try again, buddy.

    Reply

  28. Sandy says:

    As I said, I’m relatively new here. I’m wondering — is there a protocol for items posted by Steve and Scott? That is to say, do they ever take requests for certain subjects?
    With Joe Liberman on one of the talk shows this morning calling for bombing Iran….and, with all the tension out there with people, like me, believing that Bush/Cheney will be bombing Iran sometime before they leave office in 2009 — I would very much like to see The Washington Note engage in a discussion of the possibility/inevitability of Bush/Cheney starting another war …with Iran.
    What do you think?

    Reply

  29. Occam Sockem says:

    Lookee here. Have Israel give back the lands taken in 1967, and at any time after that if the Arabs act like the same assholes as they are at present, take it all back and more, and kill, kill, kill, until they get the message. May hafta kill’em all, but they had their chance. Simple stark solution sitting on my sofa.

    Reply

  30. PissedOffAmerican says:

    PLEASE don’t think that you, sitting in your middle American home and flipping channels while reading left wing political blogs, have the answers. THERE ARE NO ANSWERS!
    Man has fought man since the beginning of time. Arab and Jew have been in conflict since the days of Abraham, Sarah, Hagar and Ismael. This is a FAMILY feud; A domestic disturbance… the toughest kind.”
    Posted by Winnipeger
    There is an answer for the United States. Stop supporting Israel’s part in it. Stop arms shipments. Stop military economic assistance. Stop ignoring thier violation of UN resolutions. Stop allowing foreign agents masquerading as “lobby” groups.

    Reply

  31. Carroll says:

    Posted by Kathleen at June 9, 2007 03:10 PM
    >>>>>>>>>
    Really scared you, didn’t I?
    Good.
    Remember the lesson. The truth always trumps a agenda based on lies. Might take awhile…but it always does.

    Reply

  32. Sandy says:

    You really CAN’T make this stuff up:
    http://tinyurl.com/2de37b

    Reply

  33. Sandy says:

    Man will never fly.

    Reply

  34. Career Diplomat says:

    Unfortunately, POA, American public opinion has no impact on the status of the Arab/Israeli conflict.
    Nor does American political pressure have much, if any, impact on the status of the Arab/Israeli conflict.
    Only the parties to the conflict, themselves, can put an end to it.
    And contrary to the hijacked debate taking place here, by those who demonize Israel alone, Arab leadership and the street leaves MUCH to be desired.
    Why no mention here of the barbarity running rampant in the Arab middle east??
    I guarantee you, the Likudniks aren’t the only madmen in town! Assad, Fahd, Ahmadinejad and the Mullahs, Haniya, Nasrallah, etc… Not exactly in the league of, say, mandela ;)
    There is nothing on earth as contentious and intractable as the politics of the Middle east. To post some over-the-top, anti-Israel or anti-Arab diatribe is to betray one’s prejudice.
    PLEASE don’t think that you, sitting in your middle American home and flipping channels while reading left wing political blogs, have the answers. THERE ARE NO ANSWERS!
    Man has fought man since the beginning of time. Arab and Jew have been in conflict since the days of Abraham, Sarah, Hagar and Ismael. This is a FAMILY feud; A domestic disturbance… the toughest kind.

    Reply

  35. PissedOffAmerican says:

    APN Poll Puts Bush Policies on Defensive
    A recent poll commissioned by Americans for Peace Now and the Arab American Institute found that both Arab Americans and Jewish Americans rated President Bush’s handling of the Arab-Israeli conflict as ineffective. Both Jews and Arabs in this country clearly want the U.S. to pursue a more active role in promoting Arab-Israeli peace.
    Here are some highlights:
    80% of American Jews, and 76% of Arab Americans, rate President Bush’s handling of the Arab-Israeli conflict as ineffective.
    96% of American Jews, and 91% of Arab Americans, agree that trying to achieve peace is important to U.S. strategic interests.
    68% of American Jews, and 64% of Arab Americans, said that they would be more likely to vote for a candidate who promised to take an active role in the peace process. Only 3% from each community said they would be less likely to vote for such a candidate.
    TAKE ACTION:
    Please write a letter to the editor of your local newspaper. Say that you stand with the majority of American Jews and Arab Americans who think that it is time for a change of course.
    Click here to visit APN’s online Action Center where you can edit and send your letter with just a few easy clicks.
    http://www.peacenow.org/updates.asp?rid=0&cid=3759

    Reply

  36. ... says:

    kathleen quote >>n the meantime, I stand by my earlier comments that I do agree with Zathras. These threads really have spiraled downward and I AM surprised that this is what Steve’s noble endeavor has engendered.
    Posted by Kathleen at June 9, 2007 03:10 PM<,
    lets agree to disagree.. as for saying these threads have spiraled downward, we disagree on that too! as for being suprised by what steves noble endeavor has engendered, you are probably suprised that folks are taking a different pov then you as well! one must learn to live with different views and values, but one we could all use more of is honesty and truthfullness in our actions and intent.. people will conclude what they want to in a free world and i bet that scares some people.. i hope you aren’t one of them.

    Reply

  37. Sandy says:

    One more thing. One of the very best, most eloquent, insightful, and significant writers, IMHO, about what has gone on during the Bush/Cheney Regime….is Sidney Blumenthal. He writes for Salon.com and the Guardian and regularly shows up on TruthOut, and other sites.
    Paul Krugman is another.
    Both, I believe, are Jewish.
    Read a couple of their recent columns, if you will, and get back to me on how you think they are anti-Semites…for daring to criticize the party-line.
    Puh-leeze.

    Reply

  38. Sandy says:

    Thank you, POA. I appreciate what you have said. No, it wasn’t anything you’ve said. It WAS in fact, my “gut”…..when I read this:
    “…No, you save your vitriol for the Jews. That is the difference.
    Ron, blow away the smoke and your deceitful appeal to “facts,” and your argument boils down to “the Jews control everything” canard. Very few anti-Semites say they “hate Jews,” at least in public. Their first appeal is ALWAYS to “the facts.”
    Posted by MP at June 8, 2007 06:29 PM
    Ron has told us he is married to a Jewish woman and loves her…and his child, or children, by her…very much. You know what, I believe him! MP has accused him of being an anti-Semite. That is designed, IMHO, to try to discredit….from now on….anything Ron says….anything he offers up….because of his (so-called) built-in bias against all Jews. That, to say the least, seems to me to be a very big contradiction. That’s where he lost me.
    I BELIEVE Ron is trying….as Carroll…and POA…and others have been doing….to have a discussion about their genuine concerns about the direction in which this country has been headed….especially during years of the Bush-Cheney Regime.
    They…and I….have tried to cite specific examples…and yes, FACTS….of how this country has deteriorated….become hated…since Bush/Cheney put the Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith, Rumsfeld (PNAC), Libby, Wurmser, et al and the AIPAC and Israel’s concerns before those of the majority of Americans in this country. Whether those citizens are intelligent or not…or informed or not. That is, in fact, what has happened. (I believe the 70% Carroll meant….was the 72% of Americans who disapprove of this very “happening”….Bush/Cheney’s policies.) That is a fact.
    And, if MP and Kathleen and others dismiss any and all sources cited by any of us….then they really should read Haartz, the National Review, the Weekly Standard, Commentary, Fox News, and some other sources to hear what they have to say. To consistently and deliberately ignore the role of The Project for a New American Century, the Wurmser paper, “A Clean Break”….and what these called for….and what Cheney/Bush have done….is to bury one’s head in the sand and continue to yell a (muffled) “anti-Semitic”! Truly hard to take that seriously….ya know?
    William Kristol’s father is Irving, a leader of the neo-conservative …..all war all the time…Israel first….bunch. As is Tucker Carlson, whose father, Richard Carlson….and on and on and on. Norman Podhertz….son in law…. Everybody’s married to someone else who is connected. Gee, is that a conspiracy? Or, are these facts? Have they been movers and shakers in this administration….or not?
    And, if someone can prove to me that it is NOT factual the BILLIONS….maybe TRILLIONS….poured into the tiny country of Israel over the years….and that, compared to support for…. funding for….other countries and interests….this is NOT out of whack…..is NOT a concrete example of Israel’s and the AIPAC’s influence on American policy….please do, will you?
    …and well then, fine, call me an anti-Semite, too. It isn’t true. But if that’s all you’ve got….go for it.
    And, as for your “surprise” and calls to raise questions as to how Steve Clemons could “allow” such discussions as these on his blog…
    …gee….if free and open and uncensored discussions make you so uncomfortable…then I do not understand why you’re still here? It seems you keep coming back….
    “Democracy” is messy.
    Surprise.

    Reply

  39. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Hi Kathleen.
    A successful troll, that uses numerous screen names, has to be adept at a number of different literary styles, and application of semantics. As Den Valdron successfully exposed Winnipeger’s postings under more than one personna by pointing out similiar semantics and literary habits, so too can we each examine the comment section for troll activity, and form our own conclusions.
    Once again, I must reiterate. If an argument or a premise can only be defended by deception, straw, troll antics, or lies, than it is an argument or premise that is not worth defending.
    Hasbara….
    refers to the propaganda efforts to sell Israel, justify its actions, and defend it in world opinion. Using contemporary euphemisms, it is Public diplomacy for Israel, or using a pejorative interpretation, then it is apologia. Israel portrays itself as fighting on two fronts: the Palestinians and world opinion. The latter is dealt with hasbara. The premise of hasbara is that Israel’s problems are a matter of better propaganda, and not one of an underlying unjust situation.
    Contents
    [hide]
    1 The techniques utilized
    2 Hasbara Campus Manual
    3 Proponents and Practicioners
    4 Resources
    The techniques utilized…
    Smearing/defaming critics of Israel, aka, attacking the messenger. (This is even the terminology found in the Hasbara Handbook)
    Selective discussion of issues
    Framing of issues, and setting the terminology used in discussing Israel
    Harassing media about its coverage, aka, flak
    Challenging the portrayal of an alternative narrative, and attempting to keep the zionist narrative as the dominant one.
    continues at….
    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Hasbara

    Reply

  40. PissedOffAmerican says:

    “In fact, in all the time that I have been reading and participating in online forum’s, I’ve rarely seen ANYONE convinced of ANYTHING. You all have to admit that this is largely a useless exercise; one in which posters are largely speaking to themselves or too their perceived “cheering” sections.”
    Then you aren’t paying attention. Are you saying that the mainstream media has as much effect at informing people, and shaping thier opinions? Bullshit. I have been informed on many issues, through the blogs, and have been thanked on too many instances for supplying links and sources, by too many posters, to keep track of them all. The fact is, these online forums ARE a wealth of information, and some of us actually form our opinions from information, rather than the type of unadulterated crap that you and MP seem to prefer, where a mouthfull of straw seems to be your best argument.
    Fact is, I have changed my opinion on quite a number of issues in the few years I have participated in online forums, and have spoken online with many Americans who have done the same.
    You might wanna re-read your own postings on this thread, and reflect on thier total lack of substantive rebuttal to any of the comments here. Just like Zathras blanket indignation, you offer insult, and little else.
    Carroll’s short essay on the dynamics of this “anti-semitism” horseshit is smack on.
    And again, just what the hell kind of comments do you expect from a thread that deals with Mehlman and the Holocaust Memorial Council? Is there a way to discuss this topic without disclosing our feelings and opinions about the Holocaust, Mehlman, Israel, AIPAC, etc???
    And whats with this absolutely slimey bullshit of trying to imply that Steve is somehow tainted by the comment section here? Like that asshole troll Winnepeger did, are you trying to somehow imply to Steve that he is “anti-semitic” by association? That he should censure the commentary of his readers because you or Zathras allege that commentary to be beneath your dignity or sensibilities? Well, so far Steve has admirably refused to bow down to such obvious attempts to manipulate the discourse here, and hopefully, he will continue in his refusal. It is quite telling that the only time he is admonished for the comments of his posters, it is always by someone seeking to install the ‘ol “anti-semitic” canard. No other issue ever illicits admonishments aimed at Steve, where he is in effect blamed for the opinions of his posters, and encouraged to censure the comment section, or shut it down altogether. What exactly are you, Zathras, Winnipeger, and MP afraid of, the truth???

    Reply

  41. Kathleen says:

    Carroll:
    Blah, Blah, Blah… it’s tough for me to make it all the way through your posts. Surely, brevity is not your strong suit. At least POA has the decency to be concise with his statements (as much as I disagree with his most of his opinions).
    But, tell me Carroll, how can we take anything you say seriously when you preface your meandering comment with such unsubstantiated poppycock as this:
    “The public sentiment is running about 70% critical and not in support of Israel.”
    care to substantiate this?
    Further, even if this WAS the case (which it is not) what would this prove? That Israel truly is bad? That zionists ARE demonic and the root of all eveil in the Middle East? I think not. As you and others state all the time, the American public is largely uninformed, easily manipulated, and by-and-large, stupid. Even if 70% of Americans WERE “not supportive of Israel,” wouldn’t this fly in the face of everyone’s collective claims of an all-powerful AIPAC?
    You and others seems to argue several sides of the same argument: On one hand, AIPAC are master propagandists, yet on the other, the vast majority of the American public doesn’t support their desired outcomes. You can’t have it both ways.
    Really, Carrol, your comments are so full of factual/historical errors that I don’t where to begin, except to say that I completely, utterly, unabashedly, vehemently disagree with just about everything you have to say.
    Don’t look to me for MP’s point-by-point rebuttal. I don’t have the time or desire to engage you in this manner. I have my opinions and you have yours and something tells me that neither of us will convince the other of anything. In fact, in all the time that I have been reading and participating in online forum’s, I’ve rarely seen ANYONE convinced of ANYTHING. You all have to admit that this is largely a useless exercise; one in which posters are largely speaking to themselves or too their perceived “cheering” sections.
    In the meantime, I stand by my earlier comments that I do agree with Zathras. These threads really have spiraled downward and I AM surprised that this is what Steve’s noble endeavor has engendered.

    Reply

  42. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Sandy, please don’t base your opinions on my assertions about past history or conduct of other posters here. I may be wrong, or my interpretation of comments may be colored by my own experiences. You have expressed confidence in MP’s convictions, and complimented his delivery. There is nothing wrong with that standpoint or opinion. And you should hold it until your gut tells you different, or MP’s own comments change your view. It is not my desire to alienate participants here from individual posters. I call them as I see them, but I can only express my opinion. And my opinion is just that, and I would hate to see my opinions regarded as as some sort of effort to ostracize any one poster.

    Reply

  43. Sandy says:

    I’m relatively new to TWN, so I didn’t know of the background you have mentioned. I’m learning. I’m learning. Earlier, I had jumped to some conclusions…without knowing the background others who have been here a while…knew.
    I just want to say….to Carroll especially….that your noon post just now was an outstanding explanation of the dynamic here. I appreciate it very much. Well…and comprehensively…said and summarized. Many thanks.

    Reply

  44. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Kathleen….
    Anyone that actually “opposes” Israel’s land grabs, lobby efforts and positions, and war crimes in Lebanon would occassionally mention Peace Now, or Americans for Peace Now. They would also occassionally post unsolicited comments about Israel’s or AIPAC’s actions, or comment when the AIPAC site is posting blatant propaganda. Instead, the “opposition” that MP claims is always offered as a qualifier for an actual defense…”I am against AIPAC, but.. yadayadayada…”
    I can personally attest that I for one am tired of being tacitly referred to as anti-semitic. I am one of the few here that refuse to be sucked into debates about the history of Jews and Israel, or the theology behind Judaism, because frankly, I just don’t give a shit. To be honest, I have NO feelings about “Jews”. I tend to judge people on a one on one basis, determined by how they treat me. That goes for Jews, blacks, Mexicans, Martians, and German Shepards. But when it comes to organizations or foreign nations that I feel are having a corrosive and damaging effect on my nation and my kid’s future here, I am quite vocal. And if there is any one nation that is definitely tampering with the affairs of the United States, it is Israel, and its slimeball bribery ring and purveyor of propaganda, AIPAC.
    You have been here long enough to admit to having seen MP throwing straw like a stall mucking maniac, and on occassion actually LYING to make his case. Personally, I distrust anything he says, and find his underhanded and sly manner of twisting the words of others despicably dishonest.
    Some of us obviously see the meddling of Israel and AIPAC as having far more import on our nation’s affairs as others do. But to represent AIPAC as “just another lobby”, akin to the oil lobby, or the tobbacco lobby, is pure unadulterated horseshit. And it IS NOT the argument that someone “opposed” to AIPAC would offer.
    And in closing, just what the hell do you, Zathras, or MP expect the discourse to consist of on a thread about “The Holocaust Memorial Council”.
    Lets build a memorial to the sailors murdered on the Liberty, instead. Or spend the millions spent on this expolitive edifice to inhumanity in New Orleans, or in our nation’s schools. But don’t hire some piece of shit like Mehlman, on our dime, to preside over an institution whose only purpose seems to be to pour salt in old wounds everytime its suits the agenda of Israel to exploit the Holocaust for national gain.
    Its time to retire the Holocaust to the history books, and address the human suffering and bigotry that is killing millions TODAY. And no small part of that killing and bigotry is being conducted by Israel and the United States.

    Reply

  45. Carroll says:

    POA SPEAKING ABOUT MP: “Again, to be honest, I am sick of your crap. Its YOU that always makes the issue about “the Jews”.”
    B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T
    Read the above dialogue, Dummy.
    GRG is only able to write about J.E.W.I.S.H conspiracies
    MP didn’t initiate this. He merely chose to respond to the fool. His mistake.
    Zathras is right. Do Scott and Steve really read these comments? If so, i wonder what they think.
    Posted by Kathleen at June 9, 2007 12:34 AM
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    I am afraid you are the dummy in this one. I have to say your comment smacks of the typical censor troll found on so many discussion of Isr-Pal.
    Let’s review the “dynamics” of the usual Isr-US-AIPAC-Jewish debate.
    The public sentiment is running about 70% critical and not in support of Israel and the AIPAC-Congress connection and comments reflect that. The Lebanon bombing and congress’s craven support of it being the final straw and not only on this site but on all that aren’t totally right wing jewish or fundie.
    So the pro Israeli crowd plays “Offense” by pulling the anti-semite card to force the critics of Isr-AIPAC to play “Defense” and waste space and time explaining why what they said wasn’t anti-semitic and why they aren’t anti-semites until the original point of their comment is blurred and lost. Historically from what I have seen 99 times out of a hundred the ‘insulting slur’ isn’t justified.
    In the two true anti-semite rants I have seen on here the offenders were called out by most of the other commenters including POA who in his posts has made it crystal clear a thousand times that this is not about “The Jews’.
    I don’t know which GRG comment you are referring to but I saw nothing to indicate a “hatred” of jews…he specifically used the term “zionist” which has come to pretty much stand for the hard line Israeli-AIPAC view and he was talking about their relentless push to have us in a war with Iran..which is absolutely true. As for his claim that the media is weighted with the pro Israeli view…that is also true…you would have to be blind and deaf not to have noticed.
    In a typical thread it works like this…I can “insult” you the gentile, WASP, European or Palestine humanitarian sympathizer with the anti-semitic slur, but if you “come back at me” with the same type of ethnic or character slur then that too proves you are a anti-semite because you are only attacking my bullshit because I am a jew.
    It’s done all the time in online discussions and in public by the Israeli fanatics, to the extent of calling Carter, Walt and Meashemier, Gen Zinni, Gen Clark, former Sen Hollings, Congressman Jim Moran, Scott Ritter, James Bamford, Hans Blixer, Congresswoman McCollum, the Pope, Nixon, the First President Bush, the entire UN and everyone else a anti-semite who critizes Israel and/or the Lobby, not to mention the roll call of self hating Jews who agree with the views expressed here by myself and the majority posters about the Israel-Palestine situtation. And I won’t even touch on the zionist hate sites with pictures of anti-Israel professors and anti-Israel US universities and “American enemies’ of Israel. Or their smear tactics and efforts to ruin or end careers of any academic who dares publish or speak any word critical of Israel, or their collective efforts to censor and prevent all and any discussion of Palestine or the Lobby by threatening with financial ruin by lawsuits and rumor.
    For whatever strange reason you seem to think people will tolerate this constant barrage of “insults”, “slurs” and “character assassinations” indefinitely without striking back just because they are hurled by Jews.
    MP, although he is not a Lukid zioinist and has made reasonable statements on the Israeli affairs has also made a career on this site of looking for anti-semitism high and low. I don’t think he has accused anyone as a true anti-semite, but his search is always there.
    Anti-semitism is the “hidden reason” for someone’s remark….something someone said “veers toward” anti-semitism……someone’s remarks “reveal something deeper”.
    Although he allows “we might not be aware” of our innate anti-semitism … he knows us better than we know ourselves and is sure it is there somewhere lurking in the dark heart of all us gentiles. It’s the specter of the WASP’s, the Europeans, the Muslims bearing down on the jewish victim .
    Even when there is no there there, there is something there that could be, maybe, might be, possibly be…(considered in the light of jewish history, not our historical reference mind you, but the crystal ball of each Jew’s historical reference which we are suppose to peer into to devine how we must think, act and weigh every word we speak with the jewish feelings foremost and above all in our minds at all times on all issues)…… a glimmer of a acorn of anti-semitism…and he can no more give the anti-semitism ghost than he can give up breathing.
    Your buddy Zathras choose to collectively insult everyone on this thread instead of taking specific issue with what he supposedly objected to and in the typical manner of such types implied that censorship was needed to clean up this site of any trash, the trash being all the other posters that don’t cowtow to the Offense-Defense game.
    Much of the decades old Jewish refrain is …Americans and Europe let the Jews die, Americans and Europeans turned their backs on the Jews in the gas chambers, Americans didn’t take in enough Jews in WWII, we didn’t bomb the railroad tracks to prevent the train taking jews to the camps despite the fact that it wouldn’t have made the slightest bit of difference since no one could have gotten in there to get them out anyway and the Germans could easily have and would have just lined them up and shot them anywhere…..no one has ever done anything for the Jews….and on and on and on and on.
    Nice huh?..considering the Jews really would be extinct if America had not entered the war it had to fight on two fronts and had the fate of our own army and billions of people in the world, not just the jews, and all the nations of Europe at stake to consider in their stragety. Considering there would be no Israel if Truman hadn’t supported it at the UN. Considering the fact that Israel would be resting on the bottom of the sea as we speak without US taxpayer and military support. Have you ever seen a Jewish organization honor America or Americans collectively or build a museum or memorial to our efforts and our dead during the war and our aid to the jews after the war? Any acknowledgment to Russia who lost 25 million people? Or to Britain? Nope, Britain is number two on their anti-semitic list just under France. Americans have given 1.6 trillion dollars to Israel since it’s inception..without so much as a thank you note to the 98% of American non jewish citizen taxpayers paying the bill. Just demands for more, more,more served up with the usual slur of anti-semitism and accusation that No One Ever Did Anything for the Jews.
    Most Americans are now at the peak of the “enough is enough” of this “attitude.” As the signs say at the air base range near me..”The noise you hear is the sound of freedom.” So you have to pardon the American noise you hear on the Israel issue while we get a few things straight with congress and the jews and the jewish lobby about whether the jewish 2% of this country and AIPAC should be dictating our ME foreign policy to congress or the 98% majority of Americans who do the dying and paying should have some say so about what their country does. And since you made this about the Jews I will leave out mention of the other interest in this like the weapons industry and stick to the subject of your choice in the Israel debate, the Jews and Anti-semitism..
    After watching and listening to both sides in all this for the past several years I am pretty sure there are just many “anti-gentiles” among the jews as there are “anti-semites” among the gentiles.
    Insults beget insults, if you can’t take it don’t dish it out is a good rule of thumb.

    Reply

  46. ... says:

    kathleen i don’t agree with your bullshit comment and i think zathras is wrong.. i think scott and steve do read these comments and have some thoughts.. fwiw, grg has written about more then jewish conspiracies and hopefully mp has written about more then the ‘jewish, or zionist viewpoint’ but that is mostly what he blabs about here..
    given the story on this thread, it is suprising you are so indigant to read thoughts that run contrary to yours.. perhaps you can do like zathras too.

    Reply

  47. Carroll says:

    Carroll writes: “99.9% of the posters here have g.o.n.e o.u.t of their w.a.y to seperate the right wing cultist Jews from the Jews as a whole and all you can do as part of the radical fringe is W.H.I.N.E and pretend it is all about T.H.E J.E.W.S.”
    Perhaps. But that 99.9% certainly don’t seem to mind–and almost never take exception to–the ridiculous and, I would have thought, offensive, garbage that gets purveyed as “fact” in the posts such as the ones I’ve spotlighted above.
    You know what? If David Duke joins your march, then you’re marching with David Duke.
    Posted by MP at June 8, 2007 03:50 PM
    >>>>>>>>
    MP, this is a dumbo remark, you need to calm down.
    When you defend Israel are you defending their occupation?..their bulldozing homes? I think you said you were opposed those acts.
    Because by your David Duke example you would be driving the IDF bulldozer when you defend Israel.
    So that makes no sense.

    Reply

  48. Kathleen says:

    POA SPEAKING ABOUT MP: “Again, to be honest, I am sick of your crap. Its YOU that always makes the issue about “the Jews”.”
    B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T
    Read the above dialogue, Dummy.
    GRG is only able to write about J.E.W.I.S.H conspiracies
    MP didn’t initiate this. He merely chose to respond to the fool. His mistake.
    Zathras is right. Do Scott and Steve really read these comments? If so, i wonder what they think.

    Reply

  49. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Hey MP. Its not about the “Jews”. (As much as you’d like to convince us it is, so you can sputter your usual horseshit about anti-semitism). To be honest with you, screw the holocaust too. Israel has milked it for far too long, at too great a cost to my nation. Its history. Yesteryear. It was a tragedy, undeniably. It was a crime of epic proportions, undeniably. But stop milking it. I’m am God damned sick and tired of the holocaust being thrown in our faces everytime someone farts within 10,000 miles of Israel.
    Personally, it pisses me off that my tax dollars are supporting this fucking Holocaust Memorial Museum, and the huge bureaucracy that supports it. This Mehlman prick should go out and find a job that benefits AMERICANS, if he is going to get paid with our dime. There’s way too many pressing needs in this nation that are underfunded for us to be spending our money exploiting past history to advance the interests of Israel. And considering their treatment of the Palestinians, the cluster bombing of Lebanon, etc, etc, etc, it is way past time to start talking about the “holocaust” being perpetrated BY ISRAEL against the Palestinians, and the holocaust being perpetrated against Iraqis, BY THE UNITED STATES. 4.2 million displaced Iraqis. 650,000 dead, at least. And it ain’t over yet.
    Again, to be honest, I am sick of your crap. Its YOU that always makes the issue about “the Jews”. Its you that has proven a willingness to lie here, to constantly warp and twist the words of others so you can cast your ridiculous straw arguments. You are every bit as irritating and deceptive in your tactics of debate as that ass Winnipeger was.

    Reply

  50. ... says:

    ME, it is terrorists who wanted to get america to war in iraq and it is terrorists who are trying to do it again in iran.. those are the ones to be on the lookout for, unless one thinks it benefits israel, in which case continue the media propaganda about what a ‘terrorist’ is… more folks aren’t buying into it and i thank gorongo for pointing out to you what obviously requires a sledgehammer to get it across to you…

    Reply

  51. MP says:

    Ron writes: “Hon, I know SO much more about South Asia than the average American and, I would venture to guess, much more than even most posters here, including our kind host.
    ME: So? What’s your point? You still have explained the significance of the lack of a South Asian lobby.
    South Asians were not allowed to immigrate into the U.S. in signifcant numbers until relatively recently. They are still discriminated against in terms of visas. The big wave of Jewish immigration came at the turn of the last century. Do your homework.
    ME: So? Maybe that’s why they have a headstart on South Asians. The Protestants all had a headstart on Jews. Again, your point is murky.
    And in terms of U.S. “Homeland Security” all South Asians ARE lumped together, whether they be Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Animist, etc.
    ME: Okay, but if THEY don’t see themselves as a group, they aren’t likely to band together to do any lobbying.
    But in terms of India, Americans with ties to India are forming a lobby that promises to give the Israel lobby a run for its money.
    ME: So there you have it.
    Not that I approve of ANY group of immigrants threatening and bribing the U.S. governments to serve the interests of the country they left.
    ME: Neither do I. America needs to decide what’s in its own best interests.
    Or in the case of pro-Israel American Jews, a country they have visited for two weeks and claim to support but refuse to fight for except from behind their keyboards and on their phone lines.
    ME: Some visit for much, much longer. Many have family there. Still others emigrate. Last week, a Jewish boy was being called “disloyal” because he DID decide to go fight there. Most Americans won’t join our “volunteer” army, but they sure talk big.
    EXILED PEOPLE???? I dare any Ashkenazi Jew to take a genetic test and see how much DNA they have in common with a Palestinian.
    ME: Why mention “Ashkenazi” here? Do you put Sephardic Jews in a different category? Again, your point is murky. Jews most definitely had a country in Palestine and they were most definitely invaded and thrown out. And they have most definitely had a continuous living presence in that land since before expulsion. Those are, in fact, facts.
    Three words in terms of which religious group controls Hollywood, “Hollywood Creative Directory” — open any page of that phone book of the entertainment industry and see how many non-Jews you find, then compare that finding to the census figures of Jews in the U.S. population.
    http://www.hcdonline.com/
    ME: So? What’s your point? Jews should be less ambitious? Jews largely created Hollywood as we know it. So what?
    Do the same for the U.S. government, especially congress.
    ME: I’m willing to bet that the vast majority of Congresspeople are non-Jews. But Jews, to the degree that one can generalize, do believe in our form of government and do believe in government service. Doesn’t that make them patriotic, given how little government workers make? Maybe more Asians or Arizonans should, too.
    Hollywood shapes many people worldwide perception of Islam, especially those who have no personal experience of Islam.
    ME: Okay. Of Jews, too, BTW.
    Hollywood shapes perceptions of many other things all over the world. And I have traveled widely.
    ME: I haven’t seen too many Jewish John Waynes in my time. How many leading men and women play Jews?
    Have you seen a Tibetan “terrorist” on screen lately? A Jewish “terrorist?” Seen any depiction of Israelis or Jews as villians?
    ME: No Tibetans that I’m aware of, on screen or off. Munich put forward a pretty nuanced few of Mossad agents. Meyer Lansky and Bugsy Siegel didn’t come off too well in Bugsy or in the Godfather movies. But how many dapper leading Jewish men are there or have there ever been on film? I can’t think of one. Often they come off as nebishes. But again, your point is murky.
    Seen any jive-talking blacks on TV? (Yup)
    ME: Also, a lot of cool and intelligent blacks. Watch Law and Order. Watch the Spike Lee movies. Watch the Bill Cosby show. In fact, some people complain that the pendulum has swung too far: that blacks are under-represented as jive-talking criminals relative to their actual participation on those “professions.” But if you want Law and Order, there are lots of white criminals.
    Any 7-11 owning Indian/ Pakis? (YUP)
    ME: I don’t see many Indian/Pakistanis portrayed on TV one way or another. Deepak Chopra gets a pretty good play, though. Your point, however, seems obscure as always.
    Guess who propagates those stereotypes? HINT: look at the credits.
    ME: Hollywood tries to appeal to the American and international appetites and tastes. If the marketplace isn’t buying, the movies and TV shows won’t get made. Sorry.
    How many Hollywood movies have been made about the Armenian holocaust vs. the Jewish holocaust?
    ME: The Holocaust has been overdone, IMO, on film. The reason is, I believe, the abundance of Jews in Hollywood, but also America’s involvement in the European war. Eisenhower marched into Auschwitz; no Americans marched into Turkey to liberate camps from the Young Turks. The event’s history is closer to Americans in general than that of the Armenian holocaust. Germany and France were and are closer to American consciousness than Turkey. Also, six times more Jews than Armenians were killed.
    But again, your point seems lukewarm. It’s no secret that Hollywood is shallow and reflects American prejudices and lack of awareness of much of the world. So? If you think this points to some sort of nefarious Jewish conspiracy, you’re out of your mind.
    Where in D.C. is the memorial commemorating the millions of Vietnamese we slaughtered ?
    ME: Are you saying that Jews are preventing such a memorial from being erected? Why don’t you ask the largely Protestant US military run by the largely Protestant Joint Chiefs of Staff who took orders from the largely Protest LBJ and Nixon Administrations…that question? Why is it the Jews’ fault?
    Why is anyone who is Moslem, fighting for their own family and their own land on their own soil — Iraqis, Afghans, Palestinians, Lebanese — considered a “terrorist”?
    ME: They aren’t. But when they blow up restaurants and office buildings, they ARE terrorists.
    The only lobby trying to, and powerful enough, to keep us fighting another country’s endless wars is the pro-Israel lobby.
    ME: American went into Iraq for the oil. GWB and DC put us there. Any number of forces and groups wanted us there. When America went into Kuwait, the only country that was hit with scuds and who mobilized with gas masks was Israel.
    And orthodox/ ultra-orthodox Jews are hardly models of feminism.
    ME: No–and they don’t rule Israel–unlike the mullahs of Iran or Sauds of SA. OTOH, I haven’t read much about people being killed for converting or revenge killings, either.
    While Iraq and Palestine had more female MD and PhDs than the rest of the world in general before we destroyed them.
    ME: Uh huh. You might want to do a recount on that one. But hey, maybe you are right. Again, your point is missing.
    Again, I’m sure an enlist form for the IDF is easy to download.
    ME: So? It seems to be pretty easy for British Muslims to go off to Pakistan to become jihadis.
    If you love Israel more than you love peace then take your wars and fight them and leave us alone.
    ME: Nothing to say to this. You’re sputtering now, Ron.

    Reply

  52. arthurdecco says:

    MP, You need a vacation. Start with a deep breath…

    Reply

  53. GoRonGo says:

    Hon, I know SO much more about South Asia than the average American and, I would venture to guess, much more than even most posters here, including our kind host.
    South Asians were not allowed to immigrate into the U.S. in signifcant numbers until relatively recently. They are still discriminated against in terms of visas. The big wave of Jewish immigration came at the turn of the last century. Do your homework.
    And in terms of U.S. “Homeland Security” all South Asians ARE lumped together, whether they be Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Animist, etc.
    But in terms of India, Americans with ties to India are forming a lobby that promises to give the Israel lobby a run for its money. Not that I approve of ANY group of immigrants threatening and bribing the U.S. governments to serve the interests of the country they left.
    Or in the case of pro-Israel American Jews, a country they have visited for two weeks and claim to support but refuse to fight for except from behind their keyboards and on their phone lines.
    EXILED PEOPLE???? I dare any Ashkenazi Jew to take a genetic test and see how much DNA they have in common with a Palestinian.
    Three words in terms of which religious group controls Hollywood, “Hollywood Creative Directory” — open any page of that phone book of the entertainment industry and see how many non-Jews you find, then compare that finding to the census figures of Jews in the U.S. population.
    http://www.hcdonline.com/
    Do the same for the U.S. government, especially congress.
    Hollywood shapes many people worldwide perception of Islam, especially those who have no personal experience of Islam.
    Hollywood shapes perceptions of many other things all over the world. And I have traveled widely.
    Have you seen a Tibetan “terrorist” on screen lately? A Jewish “terrorist?” Seen any depiction of Israelis or Jews as villians?
    Seen any jive-talking blacks on TV? (Yup) Any 7-11 owning Indian/ Pakis? (YUP) Guess who propagates those stereotypes? HINT: look at the credits.
    How many Hollywood movies have been made about the Armenian holocaust vs. the Jewish holocaust?
    Where in D.C. is the memorial commemorating the millions of Vietnamese we slaughtered ?
    Why is anyone who is Moslem, fighting for their own family and their own land on their own soil — Iraqis, Afghans, Palestinians, Lebanese — considered a “terrorist”?
    The only lobby trying to, and powerful enough, to keep us fighting another country’s endless wars is the pro-Israel lobby.
    And orthodox/ ultra-orthodox Jews are hardly models of feminism. While Iraq and Palestine had more female MD and PhDs than the rest of the world in general before we destroyed them.
    Again, I’m sure an enlist form for the IDF is easy to download.
    If you love Israel more than you love peace then take your wars and fight them and leave us alone.

    Reply

  54. MP says:

    GRG writes: “There is nothing wrong with pointing out facts.
    ME: Not at all.
    Do a statistical analysis of Jews in the U.S. media, entertainment industry, government.
    ME: What of it? Are you saying there’s anything wrong with Jews (or anyone else) gravitating to media, entertainment, industry, government? Is there anything wrong with Jews being ambitious, participating in government or industry? I don’t get your point?
    Here’s a statistic you might like: Every single president since GW has been a Christian. All, except one, a Protestant.
    Compare that to say, Americans of South Asian descent, who actually compose about the same percentage of the U.S. population as people who identify themselves as Jewish in the U.S. census. Do it and then get back to me.
    ME: Are you saying there should be a quota for positions in industry and government? If Jews represent 2% of the population and South Asians do too, there should be no more Jews than South Asians in government and industry? Your point escapes me.
    BTW: Americans of South Asian (a very broad term) descent do not have an effective lobby advocating a U.S. attack on Pakistan, India, Nepal, Burma, China, Bhutan, or Sri Lanka, NO MATTER WHICH COUNTRY THEY’RE FROM AND NO MATTER WHO THEIR *TRADITIONAL* ENEMIES ARE, nor do they seem to be interested in controlling U.S. foreign policy.
    ME: Hard to know what to make of this. Since the term is “broad,” it’s unlikely that “they”–whomever “they” include here–would come together to lobby as their interests are too diverse. And, in fact, Jews are not the only ethnic lobbying group lobbying the US government on all sorts of issues.
    Although there are lots of jokes about Jewish grandmothers living in Miami, it’s the Cubans who seem to control foreign policy toward Cuba and are a pivotal force in Floridian and, therefore American, politics. So are the evangelical Protestants, who seem to have captured much of our “debate” on domestic issues a major force.
    The problem for your argument with most of the countries you mention is that no one has said for the past 60 years that they should be blown off the map and their people pushed into the sea. Nor were they founded by an exiled people.
    India and Pakistan each have the bomb (which I guess you’re okay with despite AQ Khan) and Pakistan is officially called the Islamic Republic of Pakistan which shows a wee bit of preference for their Muslim citizens over, say, their Christian citizens which, again, I guess, is just okay with you. Indeed, even though Pakistan is a US ally and receives US aid, I never hear you complaining about their aid, their bomb, or their obvious penchant for one religion over all others. Not to mention how they treat their women, etc., etc.
    No, you save your vitriol for the Jews. That is the difference.
    Ron, blow away the smoke and your deceitful appeal to “facts,” and your argument boils down to “the Jews control everything” canard. Very few anti-Semites say they “hate Jews,” at least in public. Their first appeal is ALWAYS to “the facts.”

    Reply

  55. GoRonGo says:

    There is nothing wrong with pointing out facts.
    Do a statistical analysis of Jews in the U.S. media, entertainment industry, government.
    Compare that to say, Americans of South Asian descent, who actually compose about the same percentage of the U.S. population as people who identify themselves as Jewish in the U.S. census.
    Do it and then get back to me.
    BTW: Americans of South Asian (a very broad term) descent do not have an effective lobby advocating a U.S. attack on Pakistan, India, Nepal, Burma, China, Bhutan, or Sri Lanka, NO MATTER WHICH COUNTRY THEY’RE FROM AND NO MATTER WHO THEIR *TRADITIONAL* ENEMIES ARE, nor do they seem to be interested in controlling U.S. foreign policy.
    Therein lies the difference.

    Reply

  56. MP says:

    GRG writes: “To paraphrase John Lennon — IMAGINE if, in reparation for the Jewish Holocaust, Israel had been placed in Germany where it belongs…”
    Which is why this argument, such as it is, always seems to boil down to Israel’s existence PER SE and NOT whether it’s occupying the West Bank, the Golan, Shebaa Farms, Gaza, or how it’s treating the Palestinians.
    GRG, I know many Jews–ordinary folk, not particularly Zionist, or even particularly Jewish in their sense of identity, and who are in no way neos or rightwingers–who STILL can’t bring themselves to buy a VW. The idea that Israel should or could have been established in Germany or Eastern Europe–though I’m sure the idea was floated–is one of the silliest ideas out there. Sillier still for having a certain superficial “rightness” to it.
    Let’s see…the Europeans from France to Russia were willing to exterminate their Jews as a way of “solving” the age-old “Jewish Question”…and we’re going to found a Jewish state…where?
    Get real, GRG.

    Reply

  57. GoRonGo says:

    BTW: speaking of Lewinsky and Israeli *honey-pots* — the woman who trapped Vanunu, the Israeli who blew the whistle on Israel’s nuclear program, was an Israeli “honey-pot”. She now lives in Florida.
    In 2004, if I remember correctly but definitely in the last 4 years, Ha’aretz, the Israeli paper, reported that Israel *reserved the right* to assassinate her perceived enemies ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, including the U.S.
    The Middle East and South Asia are melting down. If Mushareff gets ousted then Houston will really have a problem — WHY? Because now Israel has set it up as a war of *the West* against Islam.
    What do we, Americans, get out of our support for Israel? Endless war, the deaths of our children and the destruction of our and the worlds’ economies. FOR DAMN WHAT???
    For our support of a racist, apartheid, state-sponsored terrorist, *nation* of 5.8 million people, 71% of whom think that the U.S. should attack Iran for Israel.
    Bull damn sh*t.

    Reply

  58. Carroll says:

    Ding dong…
    In one corner we present the “World Conspiracy “of” the Jews” and in the other corner we present the “World Conspiracy “Against” the Jews.”
    I am getting vertigo watching the mice cycling round and round and round their same little cage racetracks.

    Reply

  59. GoRonGo says:

    Hey, if I hate Jews I guess I sleep with *the enemy* every night…And I hate the kids who I guess I only *think* I love…
    Honestly, please try to separate ALL Jews from Zionism. Otherwise that is exactly what you are going to get in terms of public perception.

    Reply

  60. MP says:

    Carroll writes: “99.9% of the posters here have g.o.n.e o.u.t of their w.a.y to seperate the right wing cultist Jews from the Jews as a whole and all you can do as part of the radical fringe is W.H.I.N.E and pretend it is all about T.H.E J.E.W.S.”
    Perhaps. But that 99.9% certainly don’t seem to mind–and almost never take exception to–the ridiculous and, I would have thought, offensive, garbage that gets purveyed as “fact” in the posts such as the ones I’ve spotlighted above.
    You know what? If David Duke joins your march, then you’re marching with David Duke.

    Reply

  61. MP says:

    Billy writes: “and Clinton lied about getting multiple blowjobs in the White House from a Jewish girl who could very well have been a Mossad plant, which is also a national security issue.”
    Chuckle, chuckle, chuckle.

    Reply

  62. GoRonGo says:

    On this Sunday (June 10) a demonstration is going to be held in Washington D.C., as part of a global action, to protest the USrael occupation of Palestine and the Golan.
    Here’s the info:
    http://www.endtheoccupation.org/article.php?id=1281
    Why is this demonstration important? Because it will show the world that not all Americans are behind *our* government’s carte blanche support of Israel’s colonialism, racism, and “War on Terror” i.e., “War on Islam” . And perhaps it will help stop the insanity that is guaranteed to lead to WW III, one that no one, not even the neo-cons or the ding-bat *Christian* Zionists will win.
    To paraphrase John Lennon — IMAGINE if, in reparation for the Jewish Holocaust, Israel had been placed in Germany where it belongs…
    If you’re anywhere near the D.C. area, please go to the rally! It’s only one small step to get Israel out of U.S. foreign policy and engage the Islamic world, but it’s a very important one.

    Reply

  63. MP says:

    Zathras writes: “I don’t have a lot to contribute to a dialog between commenters here who believe merely believe America has a problem with its Jews and those who think they are taking over. How Steve attracted such a concentration of individuals to his blog I’m not sure; in any event I think it’s time I took a short recess.”
    AMEN to your sentiment. Couldn’t agree more. The self-congratulatory ignorance (hatred?) is quite a sight to behold.

    Reply

  64. MP says:

    POA chimes in: “…sits today a massive and costly edifice, devoted above all to a contentious and false version of the ordeal in Europe, during World War II, of non-American members of a minority, sectarian group.”
    Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
    No one ever lost money under-estimating the intelligence of the American public. This surely ranks as one of the STUPIDEST posts to adorn these comments, yet.

    Reply

  65. MP says:

    AD writes: “Off topic a bit, I know, but after reading the commentary here I’d like to know how Zionists can continue to exploit the Holocaust with such impunity when it was one of their mid-20th century movers and shakers, New Yorker Sam Cohan, and his hideous henchmen, who were ultimately responsible for it!”
    ha, ha, ha, ha, HA!
    Steve, I hate to say, these comments are sliding downhill fast.
    I thought there was a governor on the accelerator; but apparently not.

    Reply

  66. bob h says:

    Mehlman also had no problem vilifying and demonizing gays in the cause of Bush-Cheney 2004. He deserves to rot in ****.

    Reply

  67. Fitzgerald says:

    Please give Bush a break on his drinking. He needs to drink to be sociable since everybody hates him and he hates everybody else. He’s giving himself a bracer; he’s taking courage. Winston Churchill with whom Bush is often compared was drunk all through WWII. U.S. Grant was drunk all through the Civil War and came out on top. Maybe we would be all better off now if Bush was drinking in April 2001 and had kept it up. Maybe he wouldn’t be so stone cold sober pig headed stubborn about views he came to embrace. Maybe he would of had a more loosey goosey fun lovin’ jolly good time outlook and would have not wanted more war to ruin his good times. Even better would be if he smoked marijuana regularly in the Lincoln bedroom, then we surely wouldn’t have been in this mess and it would be PEACE man! PEACE!
    So don’t be gettin’ on Bush for his current drinkin’ bouts; it’s probably doin’ him a world of good to relax, reflect with beer in hand and reset his world view. Drinkin’ can be beneficial especially for old dogs who can’t be taught new tricks.
    Drink and Be Merry!

    Reply

  68. pauline says:

    and, from Wayne Madsen this morning –
    “Bush cancels morning G8 meeting because of “stomach ailment.” “Stomach ailment” = hangover.”

    Reply

  69. pauline says:

    poa:
    Remember the bushwacker black eye and his “choking” on the pretzel on a White House couch? What really happened there? It does make me think of the giant DC disinformation campaign they continually spew out, black is white and up is down, is perfectly fine to them.
    I’m to the point that whatever comes out of his mouth or his spokespeople’s mouths, believing the exact opposite and we may be onto the truth of whatever matter they’re trying to cover (up).
    Here’s a slightly different “upset stomach story” from 2006 –
    Powell Gets Food Poisoning But Bush Gets Upset Stomach
    posted Sunday, 9 July 2006
    Former Secretary of State Colin Powell was taken to the hospital late last week for possible food poisoning. Powell admitted that it might be “something (he) ate.” Really? Wonder what it could be? Crow? Maybe putting his foot in his mouth too many times? The administration’s bullshit?
    Maybe you can only swallow so many lies before you bring them back up again.
    But it’s Geoge Bush’s stomach that might be giving him trouble, especially if he hears what Powell had to say at the Super Ideas Festival held in Aspen, Colo. Powell directly contradicted the administration’s position by saying that Iraq is in “civil war.” Uh-oh. You know what that means. The administration is going to have to attack Powell’s military record… The good news is, we may finally find out if he had a role in covering up My Lai…
    Or maybe the BushBoys will take the high road and just claim the altitude at Aspen got to Powell…
    After all, members of this administration and the Republican Party have attacked John Kerry’s and John Murtha’s military records (despite the fact that at least one member of the Swift Boat Veterans was proven to be a liar). Of course, there’s a reason they don’t attack George W.’s military record. No, it’s not because he’s one of them (that didn’t stop them from going after McCain). No, apparently you can only attack someone if they won a medal. See, Bush didn’t win a medal because you can’t do that 10,000 miles from the front. There’s no medal for Flying Under the Influence” or “Best Keg-Kicker in the Barracks…”
    The full statement Powell made in Aspen was that “we’re not going to leave behind anything we like because we are in the middle of a civil war.” In other words, the US will not get what it wants in Iraq. Which is no surprise. What we want keeps changing. At first we wanted, Weapons of Mass Destruction, but nope, we were disappointed. Then we wanted oil, but nope, we’re not getting any of that. Now we want democracy, and well, we kinda, sorta, have it, IF WE NEVER LEAVE. And Bush is drawing up plans to get U.S. troops out by 2009. Prediction? 2010 sees Shi’a tyranny running rampant in Iraq. The good news? We’ll have a new market for weapons, because someone has to help us fight Iran…
    Powell’s prediction shows the interesting growth of a statesman. In 2002-03, he was selling us the war without a warranty. Now he favors a recall. Maybe he’s a blend of Douglas MacArthur and Willie Loman. “Old salesman never die, they just sell something else…”
    In Powell’s case, he’s selling remorse and pessimism. And in the end, struggling empire’s always buy it.
    Now that should upset some stomachs… PNAC stomachs, sure, but then, they’ve never had the stomach for war. Unless someone else is doing the fighting…
    –Briggs

    Reply

  70. PissedOffAmerican says:

    I have worked with recovering addicts and alcoholics now for close to 25 years. Employed them, housed them, counseled them, and befriended them. I can state with reasonable knowledge and experience that when an alcoholic starts seeking the vicarious pleasure of drinking the so-called “non-alcoholic” beers, they are very close to going back to using alcohol. Therefore, when I saw the following little ditty in an article, it caught my attention……..
    “Last night, Mr Bush – a teetotaller – was seen sipping beer, but his advisers insisted it was non-alcoholic.”
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6733763.stm
    So, if in fact Bush is sober, and is solid in his sobriety, the odds of him desiring a so-called “non-alcoholic” beer, or failing to see the folly of imbibing in such a drink, are slim to none. Which lends a whole new perspective to his alleged “stomach upset” that caused him to miss morning meetings with G-8 participants.
    One thing is for sure, if Bush has been sober, and has led this nation so ineptly in a sober state, we are in truly deep shit if he’s drinking again, for it can only get worse.

    Reply

  71. DonS says:

    As a generalist, whose partial credentials in this discussion relate to the extermination of most of his family, I would like to add my own feelings of disgust at the furtherance of the holocaust industry at the hands of the neo-wasps and their nouveau accomplices.

    Reply

  72. HAS says:

    Scott,
    Excellent post and insightful comments in regards to Bush’s Minister of Information being appointed to such a post.
    Let’s hope Mr. Mehlman rises to the opportunity and understands the historical importance of the gift President Bush bestowed upon him.
    Keep up reporting on the stories behind the headlines. This blog continues to ID stories the MSM continues to miss.
    Great work Scott and Steve!

    Reply

  73. Sandy says:

    That should have been Steve Clemons with one “m”…sorry!
    http://tinyurl.com/36wjj3

    Reply

  74. Sandy says:

    Really, with all due respect to Steve Clemmons, discussions ….at this point….about Ken Mehlman and the Holocaust museum…. are distractions from what we all OUGHT to be talking about. Time is a wastin’.
    I’m very grateful to Steve for this blog where we are free to do that.
    The reason I valued many of MP’s posts is that he made an effort to balance the FACTS about who the Neo-conservatives are in this administration and what they HAVE done. That most of them happen to be Jewish….and happen to have an Israel-first agenda….are also proven FACTS. That the AIPAC is the most powerful lobby in Washington, D.C. is also a FACT. Witness how “afraid” the House reps and Senators ARE to do….or say…. anything to displease them. Including Hillary (who had her name printed in Hebrew for their benefit at a hotel not long ago….and who says SHE is Jewish, too (like Madeline Albright, John Kerry and others “suddenly” discovered they are Jewish….or have Jewish relatives)….conveniently. Such is the need to gain favor with those in charge of the American agenda now. MP seemed to know the difference between Anti-Semitism and these FACTS. Unless I was taken in. Which is possible. Still, we could talk to each other with respect….not silly conversation stoppers as others here have just done in this thread.
    I doubt any one here (though I can hardly speak for anyone else) is anti-Semitic….that is, hates all Jews just BECAUSE they are Jewish. There are many Jews in my life that I love very much. I would never dream of hurting them.
    So, any broad brush charge of anti-Semitism TO PUT A STOP TO DISCUSSIONS of what is really going on in Washington, D.C. just doesn’t work any more. People are too aware by now of the decit and corruption….and the crimes. And, I would think that any Jews who read here would also want to see this corruption and criminality…..and guilt by association (Neo-con crimes= all Jews….when they don’t)….stopped, too.
    Our precious country — its Constitution….the rule of law….our rights as citizens — has/have been under attack by the Bush-Cheney Regime. For YEARS now.
    Until they are out of office, there is always a very real possibility that they will bomb still another country, Iran, as part of the Neo-conservative PNAC agenda. Rice’s “diplomacy” is suspect; too little, too late. A diversionary tactic from what they really have in mind before leaving office. THERE IS A PATTERN HERE!
    Running up the debt, running the military into the ground….hopelessly screwing up the Dept. of Justice…and others….all part of the neo-con agenda and their beliefs about government. People really should read Strauss and others to learn what they believe in.
    And, if you don’t think Bush is in bed with Bandar, for example, and his brother Marvin with Riggs Bank….and all the Bushes with Carlyle….and Cheney with Halliburton, KBR, etc….well….
    I realize Steve has to work with these people. God help him!
    http://tinyurl.com/37wh3k

    Reply

  75. ... says:

    billy 10:59 am >>…Mehlman has been installed at the Holacaust Memorial as another cog in the constant, in our face, reminder of what we still owe which can hopefully be fully paid up with unwavering support of Israel in what they want us to do for them during the next five years.<<
    what is this bullshit about unwavering support to pay off something? that is a huge load of crap, and all the anti-semite, guilt encouraged crap (like your post) can take a long walk off a short pier. doubt it will wake ya though..

    Reply

  76. JohnH says:

    Zathras: Sorry to see you go. I agree, it’s too bad we have to have this debate about Israel on this blog. It would be much better to do it in public on television and in the newspapers–like they do it it Israel.

    Reply

  77. pauline says:

    JFK airport plot ‘a US setup’
    News 24 – 06/06/2007
    Port Of Spain – The four suspects in an alleged terror plot to bomb a New York airport were set up in an elaborate plan by the US Republican party to retain hold of the White House, the daughter of an arrested suspect claimed on Tuesday.
    Huda Ibrahiim, daughter of Amir Kareem Ibrahiim, one of four men accused of plotting acts of terrorism against the United States, said US justice officials had engaged in entrapment in breaking up the alleged plot.
    Huda, 20, speaking on behalf of the Trinidad and Tobago and the Guyanese Shi’ite Muslim community, read from a prepared statement in a press conference at a hotel in Port Of Spain.
    She said the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) informant key to breaking up the alleged plot had presented himself as an Islamic missionary from the United States while visiting the homes of Abdul Kadir and Amir Ibrahiim.
    The FBI’s informant, whom she called “the source”, “is the only person culpable of any of the activities mentioned in the complaint.
    Intent to entrap
    “The source visited our brothers with the specific intent to entrap them in activities they know nothing about, never agreed to and did not participate in,” said Huda.
    Her 62-year-old father, 56-year-old former Guyanese parliamentarian Abdul Kadir, along with Russell De Freitas and Abdel Nur, both of Guyanese heritage, allegedly plotted to blow up fuel-tank pipelines at New York City’s John F Kennedy International Airport.
    Ibrahiim, a Trinidadian, and Kadir appeared in Trinidad court on Monday while Nur gave himself up to local authorities on Tuesday. All three men are facing extradition to the US where De Frietas has already been arraigned.
    “We believe that the persons responsible for the arrest of our brothers are doing it for a purpose other than the protection of the people and interests of the USA,” Huda said.
    “They have apparently done so in the interest of shoring up a lame duck presidency and increasing the lame chances of the Republican party being returned to power in November 2008″, said Huda, whose father is a retired government accounts clerk.
    ‘Sure of their innocence’
    She also said her father was afraid to fly, was not computer literate and does not use the internet.
    “We are absolutely sure of their innocence. Neither of these men and we believe no one in our community participates in activities as those alleged in the public statements or in the filed complaint of the Department of Justice”, she said.
    As believers in Islamic Sharia, they followed the cardinal principles of the Koran, she said, including the principle that the blood of civilians is sacred.
    “To our Muslim brothers and sisters we swear by Allah, the Lord of Muhammad, that we have not participated in any terrorist plot against the United States,” she added.
    http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_2125074,00.html

    Reply

  78. GoRonGo says:

    I don’t trust Robert Fisk, but the title of his latest article brings up what should be the salient point in any discussion of the Middle East.
    The title is “Can the Lebanese Army Fight America’s War Against Terror?”
    http://news.independent.co.uk/fisk/article2609304.ece
    The bottom line is this: the average yahoo in America, or rather “Mur-Cur”, would not have any innate hostility towards Islam were it not for the power of the various Zionist lobbies in our government, “news” media, religious institutions and entertainment industry.
    Islam IS NOT an enemy of the U.S., but Zionism is undermining everything we ever purported to stand for.
    WE WOULD NOT HAVE A “WAR ON TERROR” IF IT WEREN’T FOR ZIONISM. Because of Zionism we have made enemies of at least 1/6 of the world, with most of the rest of the world sympathizing with that 1/6.
    And to a poster above — I worked in the media for a quarter of a century, please do a statistical analysis of which special interest group dominates the media, from Falwell to Blitzer.
    Then do another analysis of *our* congress — look at their voting records on all matters concerning the Middle East. This is NOT speculation, this is fact.
    We are now facing World War III — it is time to call a spade a spade.

    Reply

  79. downtown says:

    I see that HR 152, the bill proposing to move the American Embassy to Jerusalem, passed unopposed. Of course, this would inflame tensions in the Middle East even more. Isn’t it pathetic that the White House and State Department are more cognizant of the ramifications of such a move than the house, controlled by Democrats? In deep despair, yours truly
    dt

    Reply

  80. pauline says:

    Sex, lies and Ken Mehlman
    11-29-04
    The chair of Bush’s reelection team and newly appointed head of the RNC isn’t talking about his sexual orientation, but lots of other folks are.
    While the GOP’s latest wunderkind, Ken Mehlman, is having the time of his life addressing the Republican Governor’s conference, sitting down with reporters and editors of several daily newspapers and basking in the afterglow of President Bush’s November 2nd victory, the Internet is abuzz with rumors, innuendo, chitchat, and plain old Page-Six-type gossip about his sexual orientation.
    What if Ken Mehlman is gay? Would he be sitting down with the editors of the Washington Times? Would GOP governors still think he is the sharpest young strategist to come along since the late Lee Atwater? Would his sexual preference disqualify him from heading up the RNC in the minds of the Family Research Council’s Tony Perkins, and the American Family Association’s Rev. Donald Wildmon?
    Mehlman has come a long way from his undergraduate years at Franklin and Marshall College and from Harvard Law School. Having worked on Bob Dole’s 1996 presidential campaign and George Herbert Walker Bush’s 1992 reelection effort, Mehlman knows up close what it’s like to wake up the day after losing a presidential election. This time around, as chairman of the Bush-Cheney reelection campaign, Mehlman is being widely credited as being a major force behind the party’s massive get-out-the vote effort. For his efforts, he’s been appointed chairman of the Republican National Committee.
    While Mehlman has been more than willing — both before and after the election — to talk specifically about campaign-related issues, he has made his personal life off limits. By refusing to answer direct questions from reporters about his sexual orientation, he has left open the possibility that he is gay.
    Does the public need to know, or have the right to know, whether Mehlman is gay?
    Over the past few years “there have been lots of questions about Mehlman’s sexual orientation,” but he refuses to answer any questions about it, long-time activist John Aravosis, author of AMERICAblog, pointed out in a recent posting.
    According to Aravosis, there are a number of reasons why Ken Mehlman should answer these questions:
    “There have been rumors for years about Mehlman’s sexual orientation. Now that he’s a very public figure, those rumors gain an importance they didn’t have before…
    “Mehlman has already said publicly that the gay issue is fair game for politics. If it’s fair game, then the same rules apply to him.
    “Mehlman has publicly defended the president’s anti-gay policies, including the federal constitutional amendment. Were Mehlman gay, he’d be guilty of hypocrisy, and that would justify his outing — again, were he gay.
    “The GOP has made it perfectly clear that gays and lesbians and their relationships are a threat to the fabric of society. As American citizens and voters we have the right to know if Ken Mehlman’s so-far-undisclosed relationships are posing such a threat or not. The last thing the GOP should be doing is giving a position of prominence in the party to someone who, for all we know, might have a secret agenda of undermining the family…
    “The Republican National Committee is an organization that makes NO BONES about using gay-bashing to help Republican candidates. There is good reason to believe that any RNC chair, were he not 100% straight, would be at pains to effectively run an organization that relies on gay-bashing to get its way. Don’t red-state Americans have the right to know if the leader of their party, whomever it turns out to be, actually embraces the party’s preferred lifestyle?
    “We have been told that part of President Bush’s supposed “mandate” in the most recent election was a vindication of his attack on gays. The voting public has a right to know if the next RNC chair plans on subversively undercutting that mandate or actively supporting it.
    Meanwhile, at a recent meeting of Republican governors in New Orleans, Mehlman regaled the crowd with campaign stories, anecdotes and the inside scoop on the party’s ability to turn out its voters. According to the New York Times, Mehlman also talked about the GOP’s successful effort at voter profiling:
    “We did what Visa did. We acquired a lot of consumer data. What magazine do you subscribe to? Do you own a gun? How often do the folks go to church? Where do you send your kids to school? Are you married? Based on that, we were able to develop an exact kind of consumer model that corporate America does every day to predict how people vote — not based on where they live but how they live. That was critically important to our success.”
    Mehlman added: “If you drive a Volvo, and you do yoga, you are pretty much a Democrat. If you drive a Lincoln or a BMW and you own a gun, you’re voting for George Bush.”
    On Friday, November 24, Mehlman sat down with the editors and reporters from the Rev. Sum Myung Moon’s Washington Times. “One of my jobs at the RNC will be to institutionalize this grass-roots focus,” Mehlman told the group in his first post-election editorial board interview.
    “We have an opportunity to take that and make it durable and continue building on the gains we’ve made,” he said. Talking about the thousands of volunteers that helped fuel the president’s victory, Mehlman pointed out that “At the end of the day, love beat money. And the fact that 1.4 million volunteers, and 7.5 million e-activists, were out working their hearts out, day to day, beat a paid army” of union members and Democratic Party activists.
    In a recent column, the New York Observer’s Michelangelo Signorile points out that since Mehlman appears “so confident labeling people based on outward characteristics,” the fact that he the 37-year-old “‘bachelor’ who refuses to answer questions about his sexual orientation is a tip-off to many that he’s a pathetic closet case, and a pretty vile one at that, having used antigay hatred (aka ‘moral values’) to help elect Bush.”
    According to Signorile, “more than 20 years ago, the noted journalist and former Washington Monthly editor Taylor Branch wrote a piece in Harper’s headlined, ‘Closets of Power,’ in which he predicted a future ‘war of outage’ launched by gay activists… almost a decade before the term and practice of ‘outing’ arrived on the scene, and long before the internet would become outers’ greatest tool to circumvent the arrogant corporate media.”
    Over the past few months, the “war of outage” — targeting gay GOP politicians and gay inside-the-beltway GOP staffers — has escalated thanks to the intrepid work of folks like John Aravosis, Mike Rogers at Blogactive and John Byrne at rawstory. Weeks before the election, Byrne’s blog reported that California Republican Congressman David Dreier “was involved with his male chief of staff, with whom he shared a residence,” Signorile points out in his column. When interviewed on his radio program Dreier “would not tell” Signorile “whether he is gay or straight.” Several months earlier, Rogers “posted the audio of Virginia Republican Congressman Ed Shrock’s gay phone-line personals, forcing Shrock to resign in September,” writes Signorile.
    In an e-mail interview with John Aravosis, I asked him about the vetting process that Mehlman must have gone through with the White House.
    “I absolutely believe that with regards to Mehlman the gay issue has come up at the highest levels of the White House,” said Aravosis. “Of course he was vetted, but who knows if he told them the truth. And, who knows what ‘truth’ he told them. After all, Mehlman’s a Harvard lawyer — there are lots of truths, depending on how you define ‘is,’ so to speak.
    “The White House may know he’s gay and be fine with it — after all, there are lots of out gays in the highest levels of the Republican Party. They may, however, be lying about his orientation to the religious right leaders, telling them he’s straight, or they may be telling them that he is gay but he’s a ‘good gay’ who is happy to sell his people out.”
    In a subsequent e-mail, Aravosis said that two of his “trusted sources” confirmed this scenario: “Mehlman and the GOP are telling people that he’s straight, though they’re only willing to say this off the record — they refuse to say it on the record, which is rather suspicious, to put it lightly. That the incoming head of the RNC is afraid to publicly admit that he’s straight, when being straight is a big asset in this party. That’s fishy as hell.”
    Regardless of the outcome of the Mehlman Affair, the GOP has been put on notice that in all likelihood, eventually the truth will come out, even if Mehlman won’t. After all, “the goods didn’t come out” on Congressman Schrock “until years after the rumors began,” Aravosis added.
    “The GOP declared war on gay Americans, and the gays have accepted the challenge. They wanted a war, they’ve got one.”
    http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=18160

    Reply

  81. Donald from Hawaii says:

    Once again, the Bush administration proves itself to be the walking embodiment of the “Peter Principle”.

    Reply

  82. Michael T says:

    Can someone ask Melhman why does Germany throw people in jail if they discuss the “holocaust”? Why does Germany censor Ernst Zundel and David Irving? Facism’s inevitable censorship even arrived in the US as reporter Matt Lepacek is arrested for asking about 9/11 and reporter Chris Bollyn is convicted for exposing 9/11. This is all about the First Amendment. The US gov’t (and their corporate friends), already censor Dr. Ron Paul, arrest protesters, ban books like “America Deceived” from Amazon and Wikipedia, shut down Imus and fire 21-year tenured, BYU physics professor Steven Jones because he proved explosives, thermite in particular, took down the WTC buildings. They finally are coming for the Press. Good luck, Bollyn and Lepacek.
    Final link (until the Stark County Library bends to pressure and drops the title):
    http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0

    Reply

  83. TomChicago says:

    Mr. Mehlman has a significant opportunity to bring greater attention to the gay vicitms of the Holocaust. I wonder if he will.

    Reply

  84. bubba says:

    “a few points? how many? he apologized as the administration was actively suppressing the black vote. classy? brave? jesus…” Posted by matt
    And his apology was most likely part of some large intentional misdirection scheme—get him to go make some shallow/hollow apology that will be dutifully reported by the MSM, and then underhandedly change some regulations that negatively affect minorities, push unsupported voter fraud cases designed solely to suppress black and minority votes, etc. etc. etc.

    Reply

  85. Carroll says:

    Posted by jamzo at June 7, 2007 11:40 AM
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    The “tyranny of the minority” as opposed to the tyranny of the majority?
    I suggest we go straight to Plan B…. Burn Washington To the Ground and Start Over.

    Reply

  86. dr.steveb says:

    closeted gay guy who helped run ant-gay scare campaign of Republican party for the last several years. Oh yeah, good choice for Holocaust Memorial Council. I guess no more Kapos alive who could be appointed.

    Reply

  87. jamzo says:

    what does an invitation to ken mehlman tell us about the Holocaust Memorial Council and its plans?

    Reply

  88. Carroll says:

    The neighborhood on this board has deteriorated a little bit too much for me. While I admire the work Steve and Scott do here and will continue to read their posts, I don’t have a lot to contribute to a dialog between commenters here who believe merely believe America has a problem with its Jews and those who think they are taking over. How Steve attracted such a concentration of individuals to his blog I’m not sure; in any event I think it’s time I took a short recess.
    Posted by Zathras at June 7, 2007 12:22 AM
    >>>>>>>>>>
    Good riddence. Go clean up own whinning, bigoted, hate ridden, navel gazing, nightmare loving, sicko neighborhood.
    99.9% of the posters here have g.o.n.e o.u.t of their w.a.y to seperate the right wing cultist Jews from the Jews as a whole and all you can do as part of the radical fringe is W.H.I.N.E and pretend it is all about T.H.E J.E.W.S.
    Re:
    “Those Who Call Me an Anti-Semite are a Small Fringe of Radical People in My Country”. An Inteview with Jimmy Carter. ”

    Reply

  89. billy says:

    I’m with Robby Morrow on this! Libby lied under oath in an investigation that boiled down to national security issues, and Clinton lied about getting multiple blowjobs in the White House from a Jewish girl who could very well have been a Mossad plant, which is also a national security issue. Clinton could easily have been blackmailed to do some dirty deeds for Israel under the table, and unaccounted for, instead of doing them as part of paying off the debt for doing nothing for Jews being killed wholesale during the Holacaust. Feingold will soon be presenting a bill in the Senate that reminds us of the sins of our Greatest Generation and that we have not yet paid for them in full. And good timing too considering Iranian ambitions.
    Again, we all here in America have not yet paid for turning our backs and hoping the Jews were all exterminated in Europe during WWII before it ended, and Mehlman has been installed at the Holacaust Memorial as another cog in the constant, in our face, reminder of what we still owe which can hopefully be fully paid up with unwavering support of Israel in what they want us to do for them during the next five years.
    Let’s do what we have to do, pay of debts as a nation, so we can at the least get some satisfaction that we owned up to crimes against humanity and gave reparations to those whose families were scarred forever by our not living up to all we believe ourselves to be.

    Reply

  90. brendancalling says:

    especially ironic given the president’s grandfather helped fund the nazis.

    Reply

  91. Carroll says:

    Posted by liz at June 7, 2007 06:49 AM
    Everyone who isn’t an “investor” in the limited partnership known as Democracy,LTD is a minority these days.
    “America’s corporate and political elites
    now form a regime of their own and
    they’re privatizing democracy. All the
    benefits – the tax cuts, policies and
    rewards flow in one direction: up.”
    –Bill Moyers
    We ought to build a memorial to Dumb Blondes..they got it long ago.
    “I’m for the individual as opposed to the corporation.
    The way it is the individual is the underdog, and with
    all the things a corporation has going for them,
    the individual comes out banged on her head.
    The [individual] is nothing. It’s really tragic.”
    – Marilyn Monroe

    Reply

  92. asdf says:

    > Bush/Cheney foreign policy into a series of
    > succinct talking points that framed thoughtful
    > critics as spineless wimps.
    Yeah how he framed the wonks as wonks is terrible
    Putting everything in a violently combustible “us versus them terrorist” frame often knowingly depending on the 24 audience to fill in the religion and ethnicity of the “terrorist” to the point where big majorities blame secular rummy pal Saddam for 9/11 is one thing…. but those poor poor wonks!
    The US military psyops people call this “leveraging the xenophobia response” in operations in Iraq but extended to “the US home audience”. You have to love military honesty and bluntness on these issues.
    http://blogesque.wordpress.com/2006/06/08/death-of-a-bogeyman/
    > sadly ironic.
    Its its not some tragic coincidence that the GOP has to make peace with with minorities, and Mehlman knows this like no few others.
    Some people understand this
    http://www2.washingtonmonthly.com/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=11430
    Its a basic fact that the GOPers knowingly conspire to push xenophobia buttons harder and harder until it starts reaching that magical 50% in the polls. But hey, lets just debate immigration bills as if its about actual policy.

    Reply

  93. liz says:

    Minority outreach starts with obeying the rule of law…… discrimination is against the law and the Republicans under Bush have practiced it with grand form. I experienced it in a court of law, and cannot get the DOJ to do one single thing about it. Does anyone else think this is an example of minority outreach…. the minorities are Americans in America Steve

    Reply

  94. Marcia says:

    Mehlman assuming such a position is more like something out of “Total Remake,” a new virginity but who can he possibly be fooling?
    I knew many survivors of the camps and I honestly think there is not one who would have viewed this appointment with anything other than revulsion.

    Reply

  95. Robert Morrow says:

    Bush should NOT pardon Libby. I am sick of those folks who think they can lie and get off scot free. The Clintons are a perfect example; they have both perjured themselves with no accountability.

    Reply

  96. Carroll says:

    I also find this hysterically funny.
    Bill Kristol in the Weekly Standard:
    “Will Bush pardon Libby? Apparently not—even if it means a man who worked closely with him and sought tirelessly to do what was right for the country goes to prison,” Kristol wrote. ‘’Bush spokeswoman Dana Perino, noting that the appeals process was underway, said, ‘Given that and in keeping with what we have said in the past, the president has not intervened so far in any other criminal matter and is going to decline to do so now.’”
    “So much for loyalty, or decency, or courage,” Kristol went on. “For President Bush, loyalty is apparently a one-way street; decency is something he’s for as long as he doesn’t have to take any risks in its behalf; and courage – well, that’s nowhere to be seen. Many of us used to respect President Bush. Can one respect him still?”
    >>>>>>>>>>
    The neo’s are getting desperate aren’t they? Kristol must think he can “insult” Bush into bombing Iran.

    Reply

  97. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Your intellectually composed justifications for the unjustifiable will be sorely missed, at least by me. And why just a “short” recess? Certainly, it seems to me you have earned a nice long one.
    BTW, we aren’t supposed to discuss Israel, jews, or zionism on a thread about the “Holocaust Memorial Council”?
    Gads, who coulda guessed?

    Reply

  98. ... says:

    steve quote >>Mehlman exploited a great human tragedy – the 9/11 attacks -<<
    isn’t that what the holocaust was? maybe that is what they would like him to do with it as well..

    Reply

  99. ... says:

    zathras – actions speak louder then words.

    Reply

  100. Zathras says:

    The neighborhood on this board has deteriorated a little bit too much for me. While I admire the work Steve and Scott do here and will continue to read their posts, I don’t have a lot to contribute to a dialog between commenters here who believe merely believe America has a problem with its Jews and those who think they are taking over. How Steve attracted such a concentration of individuals to his blog I’m not sure; in any event I think it’s time I took a short recess.

    Reply

  101. Carroll says:

    This has nothing to do with the subject but it makes my heart go pitty pat….I LUV it! More! More!
    Sick of them and their “investors”.
    Rough night for decked-out Dems
    War protest sent guests at Clinton event through field, under barbed wire.
    By Kevin Yamamura – Bee Capitol Bureau
    Last Updated 12:12 am PDT Tuesday, June 5, 2007
    Story appeared in MAIN NEWS section, Page A10
    Inside a residence along the American River, some of Sacramento’s most prominent Democrats rationed lamb chops and wine without their guest of honor Thursday. Outside stood anti-war protesters, a flag-draped coffin and more than 100 guests in dinner attire, all waiting for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton.
    As a bomb squad examined the coffin serving as protest prop, the Democratic presidential candidate waited nearly two hours on the tarmac at nearby Mather Airport. Mainstream Democrats mixed with liberal activists in the street outside the home of developer Eleni Tsakopoulos-Kounalakis.
    The host, a major Democratic fundraiser, was hardly amused. Not when she had to lead guests wearing high heels and loafers through a field path and then under a barbed-wired fence into her home. And certainly not when she discovered the delay caused some to leave without contributing, according to a letter The Bee obtained Monday.
    “Of course, there were a few problems last night,” Tsakopoulos-Kounalakis wrote to Clinton supporters. “People took their contributions and left in frustration. Others were turned away after hours of waiting. I have people in pictures whose names I don’t know, and whose checks we haven’t received, and people who didn’t get pictures who contributed thousands of dollars.”
    …………>
    http://www.sacbee.com/111/story/205907.html

    Reply

  102. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Troll bait……..
    The US Holocaust Memorial Museum
    A Costly and Dangerous Mistake
    Theodore J. O’Keefe
    Hard by the Washington Monument, within clear view of the Jefferson Memorial, an easy stroll down the Mall to the majestic Lincoln Memorial, has arisen, on some of the most hallowed territory of the United States of America, a costly and dangerous mistake. On ground where no monument yet marks countless sacrifices and unheralded achievements of Americans of all races and creeds in the building and defense of this nation, sits today a massive and costly edifice, devoted above all to a contentious and false version of the ordeal in Europe, during World War II, of non-American members of a minority, sectarian group.
    In the deceptive guise of tolerance, the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum promotes a propaganda campaign, financed through the unwitting largesse of the American taxpayer, in the interests of Israel and its adherents in America.
    How did the federal government allow the creation of such a monstrosity? What is its meaning for American policy and for American values? And what must the American people do to regain control of the land their servants in Washington handed over to a foreign interest, and to establish an enterprise thereon, whether a museum or otherwise, informed by and conducted according to American principles and interests?
    continues at…….
    http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v15/v15n2p10_Okeefe.html

    Reply

  103. matt says:

    >Mehlman wins a few points in my book for trying to expand the reach of the Republican Party and perform genuine outreach to minority communities. His apology to the NAACP on behalf of the Party for its role in exploiting racial divisions was extremely classy and brave.
    a few points? how many? he apologized as the administration was actively suppressing the black vote.
    classy? brave? jesus…

    Reply

  104. arthurdecco says:

    Off topic a bit, I know, but after reading the commentary here I’d like to know how Zionists can continue to exploit the Holocaust with such impunity when it was one of their mid-20th century movers and shakers, New Yorker Sam Cohan, and his hideous henchmen, who were ultimately responsible for it!
    … that’s chutzpa!
    You can read all about it in “The Transfer Agreement” by Edwin Black.
    The Transfer Agreement is a searing, but purposefully-ignored magnum opus on the despicable Back-Room Deal that American Zionists made with Hitler to prop him up in power at his weakest political moment by strong-arming Jews influential in world-wide labour unions who were sponsoring an extremely successful international boycott of German manufactured goods, to back down and cancel the boycott in return for the Nazi’s allowing Jews who chose to move to Palestine, (as long as they only took 10,000 pounds in English Currency) of their money and then spent it buying land and services from Sam Cohan et al once they got there!
    (I know, I know…that’s a lot of information in a short paragraph…but please read it as many times as it takes to get it because it’s worth getting.)
    Hitler was literally weeks from being booted from office by the other members of his coalition government when Sam Cohan and his gang made, and then culminated this deal. (Maybe you should read this again too. Slowly.) Hitler was literally weeks away from being booted from office by Germans!…!
    Had Hitler been removed from power by his fellow members of the German government because of the effect his widely unpopular views on Jews were having on German international commerce in 1933, in the depths of the depression no less!!!, there would have been no holocaust!
    None.

    Reply

  105. JohnH says:

    The US Holocaust Memorial? I didn’t know there was a US holocaust, unless you count the Native American extermination or slavery. I guess it must refer to the Jewish holocaust memorial, i.e. the only one officially sanctioned by the US government (gypsies, Armenians, Cambodians, and Tutsis need not apply). And yes, Mehlman, as a friend of neo-cons, fits in splendidly with this view of history.

    Reply

  106. Carroll says:

    Posted by GoRonGo at June 6, 2007 06:24 PM
    >>>>>>>>>>
    I saw that also….how cravenly stupid.
    Congress has no regard for how these type of acts affect us around the world or how they might affect our troops in Iraq. Guess they think Arabs can’t read and don’t have news outlets.
    I was watching the immigration hearing yesterday and saw Feingold insert a clause into the “Immigration Bill” that would require the US to hold hearings and “revisit” how we treated the holocaust flee’ers during WWII sixty years ago. Well for 90% of the world the holocuast has no meaning now except as a extortion and blackmail tool…..if no has any respect for the holocuast claim any more let AIPAC and the ZOA and Israel blame themselves, they have worn it out and made it a sick joke.

    Reply

  107. Carroll says:

    As a person of no patience who has to read a entire book at one sitting because I can’t stand not knowing the ending….I have been wondering how this Israeli fetish in our US goverment will end.
    Will the right wing jewish cult at AIPAC continue to control our foreign policy and influence war decisions?
    What will happen to the US if they do?
    Will we the people gain anything from it?
    Or will we continue to lose more because of it?
    Suppose the Isr-cult accomplishes all their objectives for Israel in the ME?
    Will they stop with that goal?
    Or move onto even more agendas here or in other regions backed up by the US?
    I would really like to know how this movie is going to end before I plan my retirement location.

    Reply

  108. GoRonGo says:

    I kind of meant to call Fred Thompson a “know-nothing” ;-)
    By the way our local whores, the U.S. House, UNANIMOUSLY passed a resolution yesterday calling on our government to move the U.S. embassy in Israel to Jerusalem.
    Just another guarantee that the U.S. will be hated worldwide because of our congress critters’ carte blanche support of that rogue, terrorist, apartheid state.
    Here’s an article on it from the Israeli news service Ynet:
    http://tinyurl.com/32dhql
    As I have noted in the past, the reason Israel is safe from nuclear attack by those pesky Moslems is because Jerusalem (Al Quds) is the third holiest site in Islam.

    Reply

  109. GoRonGo says:

    The real “ghastly human tragedy” is playing out right now as Israel’s operatives in the U.S. manipulate us into yet another war against Islam. While they use our blood and our tax dollars to manipulate and/or commit genocide in Lebanon and Palestine.
    But here’s some good news (NOT) — former lobbyist Fred Thompson, he of the fake pick-up truck, good ol’ boy, SAG card holding, no-nothing spew, is the latest candidate to go pledge allegiance to our masters in Israel:
    From today’s “Israel Today” (6/6/07)
    FRED THOMPSON COMING TO ISRAEL
    Fred Thompson, US presidential hopeful and former star of the hit television series “Law & Order,” is scheduled to make his first visit to Israel in the coming days.
    Thompson, who is said to have a fair chance of winning the Republican presidential nomination, will meet with Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni and various other senior officials during his tour of Israel.
    Of the dozen or so candidates contesting the nomination, Thompson is among the most supportive of Israel.
    (FULL ARTICLE AT THE LINK)
    http://tinyurl.com/28k5b4

    Reply

  110. jeffreydj says:

    Just wondering, my li’l political animal keeps telling me that Mehlman recently found himself in the crosshairs of a scandal the other day. Is my critter right, or has Mehlman been without odor since leaving the RNC?

    Reply

Add your comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *