TWN Travels to Aspen

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I will be in Aspen, Colorado Sunday and Monday returning to Washington, DC Tuesday. I’ll be organizing a foreign policy discussion on U.S. Policy Towards Iran that’s unfortunately off-the-record but co-sponsored by the New America Foundation/American Strategy Program, the Aspen Strategy Group, and the Aspen Institute.
For Aspen TWN readers, I can meet Sunday afternoon or Monday morning. Pick a coffee shop.

— Steve Clemons

A sailor facing espionage and desertion charges has been held at a Norfolk, Virginia, brig since March, the U.S. Navy said Wednesday.
Ariel Weinmann, 21, is suspected of having worked on behalf of Russia, said military sources close to the case.
He was likely to have had access to technical manuals and other material on submarine systems, Navy sources said. No one else in the Navy is suspected of having worked with Weinmann, they said.
The fire control technician third class, assigned to the submarine USS Albuquerque, attempted on three occasions to pass classified information to foreign agents, the charges against him state.
Those incidents occurred in March 2005 in Bahrain; October 2005 in Vienna, Austria; and March 2006 in Mexico City, Mexico, according to the charges.
In addition to the espionage allegations, Weinmann also faces desertion charges, which could result in the death penalty. He is accused of deserting in July 2005 during his first tour of duty.
A customs agent took Weinmann into custody March 26 at Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport when he tried to re-enter the United States.
The case is the second involving allegations of military spying by Russia. The Defense Department has said it suspects Russia collected information about American intelligence in Iraq from U.S. Central Command in Doha, Qatar, in 2003.

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  7. Vartan says:

    Dave, why should we believe what TIME magazine has to say about Weinmann, and not believe Al Watan, the Saudi paper?
    Both papers are clearly not impartial: TIME has a consistent Jewish/Israeli bias, and Al Watan may have its Muslim/Arab bias. Why should we prefer a Jewish/Israeli bias over a Muslim/Arab bias? They’re clearly both biases, but I’m seeking the truth.
    Thankfully, it doesn’t take a journalist to piece together the evidence: we can do it ourselves as humans:
    1) His first name: “Ariel” – a common Israeli name (think Ariel Sharon)
    2) His last name: Weinmann – maybe German, but we know there are many Jewish Americans whose parents were from Germany
    3) The secrecy of the country of origin: why didn’t the navy come out and say it was Russia from the beginning?
    4) The secrecy of imprisonment: why keep the guy locked up for so long in secret? It’s sounding a lot like those 5 dancing israelis who were arrested, kept for a few months, then released after the Israeli foreign ministry intervened.

    Reply

  8. DL says:

    From this article in Time Magazine: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1224928,00.html
    (1) Ariel Weinmann is NOT Jewish. His family is of German ancestry, hence the name Weinmann.
    (2) Ariel Weinmann is accused of spying for Russia, not for Israel.
    It sounds like Saudi Arabia and Israel-hating folks jumped to the same conclusion, “Ooh, he’s got a Jewish sounding name and accused of spying, must be a damn Jew spying for Israel again.”

    Reply

  9. Dave says:

    If he’s allowed to go free on some sort of bond, the folks at the NSA and other groups involved will conveniently turn their heads while he flees. It’s happened in the past, It’ll happen again. Will there be a media uproar about the convicted officer/spy who’s escaped? Do you think that they’ll even try to extradite him from the one absolutly un-extraditable nation? Don’t count on it! The name Ariel J. Weinmann along with the crime will be thrown down the memory hole…until he receives his medal for services as with Pinhas Lavon.

    Reply

  10. fred says:

    Once again, ahem, POA, you are wrong, probably in part because you allow your prejudices to blind you in your reactionary rush to judgment.
    For one thing, there is no Jerusalem Times. The Jerusalem Post wrote the following story:
    “A US Navy sailor, Ariel J. Weinmann, is suspected of spying for Israel and has been held in prison for four months, according to an article published Monday in the Saudi daily Al-Watan.
    “It reported that Weinmann is being held at a military base in Virginia on suspicion of espionage and desertion.
    “According to the navy, Weinmann was apprehended on March 26 “after it was learned that he had been listed as a deserter by his command.”
    “Though initial information released by the navy makes no mention of it, Al-Watan reported that he was returning from an undisclosed “foreign country.”
    “American sources close to the Defense Department told Al-Watan that Israel was the country in question.”
    Hmm, you conspiracy theorists should know better than to trust a Saudi “media” outlet. Set aside the fact that anything Saudi should be treated with extreme suspicion. Please recall that the Saudis sponsored and spawned Bin Laden and 9-11. There is no free media in Saudi. I’ll bet that story was written by the Saudi government.
    Second the Saudi story claims to have “American sources close to the defense department.” DoD types speaking to Saudis on an espionage case? Come on. Does that sound plausible, even to any of you the CIA-planted-transisters-in-my-molars types??

    Reply

  11. Pissed Off American says:

    Here is the Navy Times article, that says exactly what…ahem…”fred” says it does. Apparently they want us to believe, or perhaps it is truly so, that Russia was supposed to be the offending country. However, I find it interesting, considering Russia’s submarine fleet is largely mothballed and rusting in port, with neither the funds to upkeep it, nor the funds to pay the sailers. Yet Israel is currently expanding its fleet. Note too that it was the Jeruselum Times that initially asserted that Israel was invloved, NOT ” a Saudi media” source as “fred” alleges.
    Sailor charged with espionage
    By William H. McMichael
    Staff writer
    NORFOLK NAVAL STATION, Va. — The Navy has charged a sailor who allegedly deserted his submarine last year with trying to pass secret documents contained in a stolen laptop to an unspecified foreign government — possibly more than one.
    Fire Control Technician 3rd Class Ariel J. Weinmann, 21, has been charged with three counts of espionage, as well as desertion, larceny, failure to obey a lawful order, copying classified information and destruction of military property.
    The Navy has not said which nation or nations are involved. A story in Wednesday’s Jerusalem Post alleged that one of the countries involved is Israel. A Navy official, who asked not to be identified due to the sensitive nature of the charges, said Wednesday that it is “definitely not Israel.”
    The case was heard July 26 in an Article 32 hearing by an investigating officer who will prepare recommendations for Adm. John Nathman, commander of Norfolk, Va.-based Fleet Forces Command, the convening authority for the case. Nathman will decide which charges, if any, will be referred to court-martial.
    That hearing was not publicized or open to the press.
    If tried and convicted of espionage, Weinmann could be executed, according to the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
    Weinmann, who joined the Navy in July 2003, was assigned in October 2004 to the attack submarine Albuquerque, then located at New London Submarine Base, Conn.. The Navy says he deserted the sub in July 2005, taking a government-owned laptop computer that apparently contained data classified as “confidential” and “secret,” according to the charge sheets supplied by Fleet Forces Command.
    The Navy alleges that Weinmann tried to pass the classified information to representatives of a foreign government multiple times: in March 2005, before he allegedly deserted, “at or near” Manama, Bahrain; in October 2005 in Vienna, Austria; and this past March in Mexico City.
    Weinmann was arrested by Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents at Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport on March 26. He’s been held in the Norfolk Naval Station brig ever since.
    http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2011469.php

    Reply

  12. Pissed Off American says:

    SPYING FOR RUSSIA
    HEADLINE: Sources: Navy sailor suspected of spying for Russia
    BYLINE: From Barbara Starr CNN Washington Bureau
    DATELINE: WASHINGTON
    The most recent Navy Times story says the following: “A Navy official, who asked not to be identified due to the sensitive nature of the charges, said Wednesday that it is “definitely not Israel.”
    Posted by fred
    Results of an advanced google search…..
    Web
    Tip: Try removing quotes from your search to get more results.
    Your search – “A Navy official, who asked not to be identified due to the sensitive nature of the charges, said Wednesday that it is “definitely not Israel.” ” – did not match any documents.
    Suggestions:
    Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
    Try different keywords.
    Try more general keywords.
    Try fewer keywords.

    Reply

  13. fred says:

    I love the stupidity and reactionary behavior on this website.
    A sailor named Ariel J. Weinmann was an agent for Israel because of his alleged Jewishness?
    That’s akin to saying Robert Hansen, an ardent Catholic, was an agent of the Vatican, or the Walker Family or Aldrich Ames, ardent Protestants, were the agents of Pat Robertson.
    If you are going to tar somebody because of his relgion, tar them all the same way.
    By the way, your assumption that he spied for Israel is based on a story in the Saudi media, hardly a font of truth and accuracy.
    The most recent Navy Times story says the following: “A Navy official, who asked not to be identified due to the sensitive nature of the charges, said Wednesday that it is “definitely not Israel.”

    Reply

  14. Pissed Off American says:

    “POA: Thanks for the information. I actually came through about 6 times. I will definitely be checking out these links.”
    Hehehe…..yeah, thats the last we will hear from you on THIS issue, I am sure, MP. Not a lot there to refute, is there, MP? Any one that takes the time to do the research, and peruses the available EVIDENCE, has to admit that ’04 was a stolen election, that Kerry is a fucking coward for not contesting it, and remaining silent about it, and that Blackwell, and many others involved, belong in a federal prison. They are criminals.
    http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen
    http://www.johnconyers.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={BD0FBB2E-BAE6-4A15-9517-E9E135D8F0C7}
    http://www.blackboxvoting.org

    Reply

  15. MP says:

    POA: Thanks for the information. I actually came through about 6 times. I will definitely be checking out these links.
    As for Balkanization, I can see the point. But I think it has roots in the post Viet Nam Democratic party, which became a collection of special interests, each pushing its own agenda. The current Republican hegemony (which is breaking up) is just a reaction to what many felt was the extremism of the 1960s left and the seeming lack of “ordinary values” in American life. The cheapening of life. The materialization of life. This is, I believe, a big piece of what drives all the fundamentalists from the Christians to the Jews to the Muslims–a search for meaning in life in a society that seems to be adrift in materialism and anything goes mentality.
    As a secular humanist (pretty much) I don’t agree with this, of course, but it’s important to understand it.
    I agree with POA that the Republican leadership has simply used the Christian right to win elections. They aren’t about values; they are about power and money, in any order you wish. The Christian right are simply their shock troops.
    In terms of our previous discussion about elections, the presidents who are TRULY successful are those who are able to perceive and address the deepest fears and best desires of a wide swath of the public that cuts across all sorts of usual divisions. He or she reaches down below the surface divisions to achieve a consensus and energy for the way forward. FDR was like that. JFK had the potential. LBJ had the potential. Nixon only worked on fear. Reagan had it some degree (though I strongly disagreed with him) though his success, I believe, was mostly based on Nixon’s, Ford’s, and Carter’s failures.
    A president of this caliber more or less solves the problem of Balkanization, such as it is.
    BTW, this hyphenation stuff has been going on for a long time. When my grandparents came to the US, they refused to teach their kids Hungarian because they wanted them to be Americans. There’s still some of this around, I believe, but a lot of people feel a lot more strongly about keeping their original culture and retain ties to their original country than they used to. Maybe because America seems (to them) to be about nothing but money. Crass and commercial. Maybe because their countries of origin don’t look too bad to them (the way they did to previous generations). Maybe because they harbor hopes of getting a degree here and going back to help their countries of origin. Don’t know, but it’s an interesting phenomenon.

    Reply

  16. Mocu says:

    Pick a coffee shop.
    ——————————–
    What, no dinner salon gathering?

    Reply

  17. moe says:

    Ariel J. Weinmann is Jewish, and is a spy for Israel, which are the reasons for his secret detention, as in, kept secret from the American public for the benefit of Israel continued unhindered ownership of US foreign policy in the Middle East.
    This can not be more obvious.

    Reply

  18. Pissed Off American says:

    “Do you think Bush and Co would have been able to do what they have done if not for the jewish-hyphens and the christian-hyphens”
    No. They enabled him. But not out of sinister designs. They are simply IGNORANT, conditioned by the media propaganda to think a certain way. The people that BUY the lies are victims, not accomplices. It is the ACTUAL LIARS that are the problem.

    Reply

  19. Carroll says:

    And..just to clarify…it is not the hypens per se, it is the “fanatics” of the hyphens who galvanize the hyphens by appeal to ethnic or religious identities/interest….as with most things, it’s the old 20/80 rule…

    Reply

  20. Carroll says:

    POA and Matthew….
    100 bucks + interest for 5 years says I am right…
    Do you think Bush and Co would have been able to do what they have done if not for the jewish-hyphens and the christian-hyphens ..do you think Bill Nelson D-Fla would have a reason to sponsor a bill to give 80 million taxpayer dollars to some unidentified Cuba rebels in Cuba if not for the cuban-hyphen exiles votes in South Fla. he gets from it?
    Call it balkanization, call it special interest, call it hyphens…they are running a large part of our foreign policy and country by proxy because the politicans use them to stay in office and then they use the politicans. The politicans set up this “divisive” ploy a long time ago and now it has become their master.
    And it’s not a “diversion” from the Bush “dictatorship”, it’s a major and useful “enabler” of it…

    Reply

  21. Pissed Off American says:

    Carroll, I usually agree with much you say. But the labor force coming in from Mexico, or the Jewish Americans who naively support Israel due to ignorance are hardly our problem. It is the corporate interests that feed off the illegals, and the zionist fanatics within our government that feed the ignorance of the Jewish Americans that is the problem. Personally, I have no problem with the so-called “Hyphenated Americans”, be they Jewish, Latino, or Asian. They are just people that basically want the same things I do…education, security, income, health…etc.. We have FAR MORE to worry about at the moment than the “balkanization” of America. Our subservience to Israel, the clusterfuck in Iraq, the debacle of New Orleans, the corrupted electoral system, our government’s expanding police powers and disregard for the constitution….NONE of these things have anything to do with “balkanization”. This is just yet ANOTHER divisive sideline that strays from the very real and grave issues that are currently tearing our country asunder. whether or not we are becomning “balkanized” will hardly matter if we are doing so under a dictatorship, or worse, our back yards are glowing in the dark.

    Reply

  22. Matthew says:

    Carroll: You have to give the Republicans credit. They just never run out of things to be afraid of. At this point, they just know their Waterloo is coming the First Tuesday in November–the Prussians, or at least the Ned Lamonts, are coming out of the woods. Hence, the fear-du-jour. Of course, if a homosexual Hispanic Muslim terrorist crosses the border and detonates himself at the county register’s office after conducting a civil union ceremony, Tancredo’s strategy might just work.

    Reply

  23. Carroll says:

    I saw something interesting on c-span earlier today… Congressman Tom Tancredo was on the book channel taking about his book “In Mortal Danger”.
    I haven’t read it, but evidently it is about how the US is being “balkanized” , as he described it, by all the “hypen”-americans and how this happened.
    Basically the same arguement I have made about how encouraging “ethnic identification” and allowing “interest” groups of different ethnics and religions and “former” homeland groups to dictate policies because politicans find pandering to group niches the easy way to get money and votes.
    I haven’t read the reviews but am guessing a large part of it is about the Mexican immigration question. And since Tancrendo himself is a Italian immigrant I doubt it is a immigrant bashing book.
    He also pointed out how enjoying and carrying over certain “cultural” aspects of your heritage is different from “identifying” with another country or with basing your views and actions on your alleigence to a certain country or ethnic or religious group.
    I hope Steve’s site is around 5 years from now so I can come back and say I told you so. Cause I think people are seeing the signs of “diversity and special minority groups gone too far” where it concerns the welfare of the country as a whole. I predict that the blowback to what we now see in the immigration issue, the Cuban exile issue ,and the Israeli lobby influence, and all the other “exile” advocate groups will eventually cause a huge turn in american attitudes and a political storm.
    And the more outlandish it gets and the more damage it does the bigger the blowout will be.

    Reply

  24. Pissed Off American says:

    Isarel “arrested” (kidnapped) the Palestinian Parliamentary Speaker today. I guess when Bush said he wanted to bring democracy, he didn’t mean Arabs could ACTUALLY CHOOSE their own representatives. (And who counted all those Hamas votes? Was Kathleen Harris not available?)
    If this is further evidence of “birth pangs” of the New Middle East, the ME needs a new obstetrician.
    Posted by Matthew
    Yeah, then, of course, we have all the politicos here, both “left” and “right” here that chastised Maliki and called him an “enemy” because he did not condone Israel’s invasion of Lebanon. So hey, I guess all three “steps” of the “march to democracy” were out of cadence, Iraq, Gaza, and Lebanon. Of course, we could discuss Haiti and Venezuela too, couldn’t we??? Seems these pesky ‘lil democracies aren’t exactly to Bush’s liking, are they? Its pretty pathetic really. We seem to recognize the lack of respect these criminals in the White House have for THOSE democracies, yet it is damned hard to get anyone to accept how little respect they have for OUR OWN democracy.
    The definition of “Democracy” to these criminals in the White House is a country led by anyone willing to kneel under Bush’s desk. They gotta swallow, too. Chalabi comes to mind, now there, (to a Bushlicker), is the PERFECT leader of a “democracy”. The irony is that these criminals are too damned megalomaniacal to realize that Chalabi wasn’t the one kneeling, nor was he the one doing the swallowing.

    Reply

  25. Matthew says:

    Isarel “arrested” (kidnapped) the Palestinian Parliamentary Speaker today. I guess when Bush said he wanted to bring democracy, he didn’t mean Arabs could ACTUALLY CHOOSE their own representatives. (And who counted all those Hamas votes? Was Kathleen Harris not available?)
    If this is further evidence of “birth pangs” of the New Middle East, the ME needs a new obstetrician.

    Reply

  26. Pissed Off American says:

    POA…
    That navy case is interesting, I wonder why it hasn’t received the attention the poor terrier loonies in Miami got?
    I think Weinmann is a German Jewish name so it could be another misplaced loyalty connected to Israel or he could be just doing it for money for some other country. Is there any personal backgound on this guy?
    But odd it is so hush-hush.
    Posted by Carroll
    But is Ariel a “german/jewish” surname??? I did googles, in varios forms on this guy and could find nothing. I did note that he served on a Los Angeles class sub, which I believe is more advanced than the Dolphin class boats the Israeli’s fleet is comprised of.
    BTW, my apologies to the forum for my outburst above. Steve explained the anamoly to me via email, and I am satisfied there were no efforts advanced to block my response to MP. I guess I am getting exponentially more distrustful as I watch the steady progress my much beloved country is making towards becoming a police state. I have seen policies, statements, and events occur these past six years that are totally alien to what we purport ourselves to be. I never felt I would EVER be so ashamed of both my governments policies, AND the leaders forming those policies. And worse, I NEVER felt before the total realization that there is much to FEAR from our current leadership if you stand in opposition to them. Thease people will stop at NOTHING, and it is going to get far worse before it gets any better.

    Reply

  27. Carroll says:

    POA…
    That navy case is interesting, I wonder why it hasn’t received the attention the poor terrier loonies in Miami got?
    I think Weinmann is a German Jewish name so it could be another misplaced loyalty connected to Israel or he could be just doing it for money for some other country. Is there any personal backgound on this guy?
    But odd it is so hush-hush.

    Reply

  28. Carroll says:

    I think someone should kidnap Israel’s US soliders, Feith,Perle, Kristol, the heads of AIPAC and JINSA and see if Israel would attack us.
    Maybe I am feeling the effect of the full moon but wouldn’t that be an interesting sceniro?

    Reply

  29. Steve Clemons says:

    Concerned American, yes — we will have a couple of Farsi speakers. And Colorado — thanks for the tip. I’ll actually be holding this meeting in the Library of the Paepcke Building.
    Steve Clemons

    Reply

  30. Pissed Off American says:

    Damn, in the thread above, I have made a total of SIX attempts to post a response to MP’s query. I keep getting an unusual page that I have never seen before that claims my post will appear after it is “reviewed”.
    Well, MP, heres my response. Oakley, and Annie, will just have to forgive my intrusion….
    “BTW, can you point me to links with the proof that the Ohio presidential election in 2004 was stolen? I’d appreciate it.”
    First, MP, I suggest you peruse the efforts of a TRUE American patriot and take a look at Bev Harris’ site. If nothing else, irt will give uyou an idea of the depth and seriousness of an issue that Steve and our so called “leaders” of both parties are IGNORING…..
    http://www.blackboxvoting.org
    Then, you may want to take a look at John Conyers’ efforts, and the evidence he has compiled…..
    http://www.johnconyers.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={BD0FBB2E-BAE6-4A15-9517-E9E135D8F0C7}
    And, it wouldn’t hurt for you to take a look at Robert Kennedy’s recent and ongoing research and allegations…..
    http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

    Reply

  31. Pissed Off American says:

    Testing….
    This is my FIFTH attempt to post this. Odd, I have never had this trouble before….
    “BTW, can you point me to links with the proof that the Ohio presidential election in 2004 was stolen? I’d appreciate it.”
    First, MP, I suggest you peruse the efforts of a TRUE American patriot and take a look at Bev Harris’ site. If nothing else, irt will give uyou an idea of the depth and seriousness of an issue that Steve and our so called “leaders” of both parties are IGNORING…..
    http://www.blackboxvoting.org
    Then, you may want to take a look at John Conyers’ efforts, and the evidence he has compiled…..
    http://www.johnconyers.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={BD0FBB2E-BAE6-4A15-9517-E9E135D8F0C7}
    And, it wouldn’t hurt for you to take a look at Robert Kennedy’s recent and ongoing research and allegations…..
    http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

    Reply

  32. Pissed Off American says:

    This is my fourth attempt to post this. Odd, I have never had this trouble before….
    “BTW, can you point me to links with the proof that the Ohio presidential election in 2004 was stolen? I’d appreciate it.”
    First, MP, I suggest you peruse the efforts of a TRUE American patriot and take a look at Bev Harris’ site. If nothing else, irt will give uyou an idea of the depth and seriousness of an issue that Steve and our so called “leaders” of both parties are IGNORING…..
    http://www.blackboxvoting.org
    Then, you may want to take a look at John Conyers’ efforts, and the evidence he has compiled…..
    http://www.johnconyers.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={BD0FBB2E-BAE6-4A15-9517-E9E135D8F0C7}
    And, it wouldn’t hurt for you to take a look at Robert Kennedy’s recent and ongoing research and allegations…..
    http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

    Reply

  33. Pissed Off American says:

    This is my third attempt to post this. Odd, I have never had this trouble before….
    “BTW, can you point me to links with the proof that the Ohio presidential election in 2004 was stolen? I’d appreciate it.”
    First, MP, I suggest you peruse the efforts of a TRUE American patriot and take a look at Bev Harris’ site. If nothing else, irt will give uyou an idea of the depth and seriousness of an issue that Steve and our so called “leaders” of both parties are IGNORING…..
    http://www.blackboxvoting.org
    Then, you may want to take a look at John Conyers’ efforts, and the evidence he has compiled…..
    http://www.johnconyers.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={BD0FBB2E-BAE6-4A15-9517-E9E135D8F0C7}
    And, it wouldn’t hurt for you to take a look at Robert Kennedy’s recent and ongoing research and allegations…..
    http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

    Reply

  34. Concerned American says:

    Are any of the experts participating in the behind closed doors Iran strategy session fluent in Farsi? If not, it’s doomed to failure.

    Reply

  35. Pissed Off American says:

    My first post in response does not appear to have “arrived”. If I end up posting twice here on this issue with similiar postings, I apologize….
    “BTW, can you point me to links with the proof that the Ohio presidential election in 2004 was stolen? I’d appreciate it.”
    First, MP, I suggest you peruse the efforts of a TRUE American patriot and take a look at Bev Harris’ site. If nothing else, it will give you an idea of the depth and seriousness of an issue that Steve and our so called “leaders” of both parties are IGNORING…..
    http://www.blackboxvoting.org
    Then, you may want to take a look at John Conyers’ efforts, and the evidence he has compiled…..
    http://www.johnconyers.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={BD0FBB2E-BAE6-4A15-9517-E9E135D8F0C7}
    And, it wouldn’t hurt for you to take a look at Robert Kennedy’s recent and ongoing research and allegations…..
    http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

    Reply

  36. Pissed Off American says:

    “BTW, can you point me to links with the proof that the Ohio presidential election in 2004 was stolen? I’d appreciate it.”
    First, just for a look at a true patriot, and a bit of an overview about what our politicians, AND Steve here are IGNORING, I suggest you look at Bev Harris’ site…..
    http://www.blackboxvoting.org
    Then have a hard look at the efforts of John Conyers, and the evidence he dug up in regards to NATIONAL disenfranchizement and out-right fraud stealing the votes of great numbers of voters in NUMEROUS states……
    http://www.johnconyers.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={BD0FBB2E-BAE6-4A15-9517-E9E135D8F0C7}
    Lastly, take a good look at what Robert Kennedy is now pursuing……
    http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

    Reply

  37. colorado says:

    Don’t know if you have time while in Aspen but there’s a special event- a conversation between Daniel Schorr and Scott Simon of NPR’s Weekend Edition at Paepcke Auditorium(at the Aspen Institute) on Monday afternoon at 5pm.

    Reply

  38. MP says:

    Could be, POA. We’ll see.
    BTW, can you point me to links with the proof that the Ohio presidential election in 2004 was stolen? I’d appreciate it.
    Here’s an interesting article from Daniel Levy in Ha’aretz:
    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/746312.html
    My views, exactly.

    Reply

  39. Pissed Off American says:

    Hmm, Steve, am I to assume this is an open thread???
    If so, this is an interesting little ditty….
    When I saw the caption, “A US officer was held in secret for 4 months: what happened to due process under George Bush? 8/5”, on Buzzflash, I clicked on it fully expecting to read yet another article about a Muslim being rounded up in Bush’s fascist manner of ignoring due process. Instead, it seems that the “officer” involved here, and held in secret, was one “Ariel J. Weinmann”, who was serving onboard a United States Navy submarine.
    I have a gut feeling on this one, Steve. Why hide this prosecution from scrutiny??? Navy guys go AWOL all the time, what makes this one so needing of secrecy??
    If you have any connections that might shed light on this one, Steve, it might be interesting to do a little digging. Doesn’t Israel have a submarine corps currently being heavily invested in? Something tells THIS pissed off American, just on a hunch, that Weinmann is about to call Israel “home”, as he is quietly sent back to his masters.
    http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=108646&ran=180358&tref=po
    And yep, David/Brian/Zeke, it IS pure conjecture on my part. I’ve been wrong a few times these last five years. But, hey, I’ve been right far more often. This ditty above fits a pattern, a modus operendi I have seen repeatedly. Mark my words, Ariel J. Weinmann is about to dissappear.

    Reply

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