The View from My Window

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Steve Clemons Pocantico Window.jpg
(click image for larger version)
I am up north of New York City today where it’s rainy, windy, and beautiful. Thanks to the hospitality of the Rockefeller Brothers Fund, I’ll be staying at the Pocantico Conference Center which is the former coach and horse barn for Kykuit, the estate of John D. Rockefeller.
Our topic for discussion will be how to frame America’s defense and security challenges. The US in the World project will be presenting research findings on alternative ways to conceptualize America’s current security dilemmas — and how to move away from the troublesome ‘war on terror’, ‘war on al Qaeda’, ‘war on xxxx’ frames that distort America’s roster of global concerns.
Not sure I’ll be able to report out the findings just yet — but they’ve assembled a great group of thinkers and communications experts to sort this out.
— Steve Clemons
Editor’s Note: Thanks again to Andrew Sullivan of The Daily Dish who allowed me to follow his lead in posting occasional pics from readers and yours truly under the “The View from Your/My Window” heading, which was his construct.

Comments

49 comments on “The View from My Window

  1. PissedOffAmerican says:

    “The “ultranationaistic agenda” that you describe is wishing to survive and keep their very successful democratic country, and not get massacred by the 7th century barbarians of Hamas, who are perfectly open in their intentions to kill all the Jews. The Israelis will make compromises for peace, and have done so, but they want peace in return, not lies, incitement, and the promise of more war”
    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/LK10Ak04.html
    Excerpt….
    “Those in Europe and the United States who cheer on these wars claim that they are issuing a wake-up call about the continued threat of al-Qaeda, the Taliban, and other militants who claim the banner of Islam. However, what really keeps Islamophobes up at night is not the marginal and backwards-looking Islamic fundamentalists but rather the growing economic, political, and global influence of modern, mainstream Islam. Examples of Islam successfully grappling with modernity abound, from Turkey’s new foreign policy and Indonesia’s economic muscle to the Islamic political parties participating in elections in Lebanon, Morocco, and Jordan. Instead of providing reassurance, however, these trends only incite Islamophobes to intensify their battles to “save” Western civilization”
    “As long as our unfinished wars still burn in the collective consciousness – and still rage in Kabul, Baghdad, Sana’a, and the tribal areas of Pakistan – Islamophobia will make its impact felt in our media, politics, and daily life. Only if we decisively end the millennial Crusades, the half-century Cold War, and the decade-long “war on terror” (under whatever name) will we overcome the dangerous divide that has consumed so many lives, wasted so much wealth, and distorted our very understanding of our Western selves”
    “The Crusades continue”
    “With their irrational fear of spiders, arachnophobes are scared of both harmless daddy longlegs and poisonous brown recluse spiders. In extreme cases, an arachnophobe can break out in a sweat while merely looking at photos of spiders. It is, of course, reasonable to steer clear of black widows. What makes a legitimate fear into an irrational phobia, however, is the tendency to lump all of any group, spiders or humans, into one lethal category and then to exaggerate how threatening they are. Spider bites, after all, are responsible for at most a handful of deaths a year in the United States”
    “Islamophobia is, similarly, an irrational fear of Islam. Yes, certain Muslim fundamentalists have been responsible for terrorist attacks, certain fantasists about a “global caliphate” continue to plot attacks on perceived enemies, and certain groups like Afghanistan’s Taliban and Somalia’s al-Shabaab practice medieval versions of the religion. But Islamophobes confuse these small parts with the whole and then see terrorist jihad under every Islamic pillow. They break out in a sweat at the mere picture of an imam”

    Reply

  2. Dan Kervick says:

    Nadine, it’s just not plausible to argue that a government dominated by a coalition of Likud, Yisrael Beiteinu, and several ultra-orthodox parties is not a right wing government. Again, I don’t know why you are so eager to distance Israel from the right. I thought you hearted the right.
    But I’ve already written more about Israel this week than events merit.

    Reply

  3. PissedOffAmerican says:

    “Modern Leftists always side with the terrorists. Doing otherwise would be discrimination, and that’s the only sin a Leftist recognizes”
    Why does anyone bother to engage this blubbering idiot?

    Reply

  4. nadine says:

    “If it is a consensus, it is a right-wing consensus, because Israel is increasingly a right-wing state with a right-wing population mobilized behind an ultranationalistic agenda. But Labor affiliation continues to shrink in any case, and Kadima was never part of the coalition.” (Dan Kervick)
    To you it may be right-wing, but then, you’re so far left that everything is right-wing to you. Bibi tried hard for Kadima, but Lipni’s price was too high.
    The “ultranationaistic agenda” that you describe is wishing to survive and keep their very successful democratic country, and not get massacred by the 7th century barbarians of Hamas, who are perfectly open in their intentions to kill all the Jews. The Israelis will make compromises for peace, and have done so, but they want peace in return, not lies, incitement, and the promise of more war.
    Now, isn’t it telling that your kneejerk response to the conflict is to back the 7th century barbarians? Modern Leftists always side with the terrorists. Doing otherwise would be discrimination, and that’s the only sin a Leftist recognizes.

    Reply

  5. Don Bacon says:

    There will be some export growth, primarily by India.
    news report:
    India aims to double exports to US by 2014
    Tuesday, November 09, 2010 New Delhi
    While addressing the members of the consultative committee meeting of commerce & industry ministry, minister Anand Sharma said with the set of measures announced recently, we would be able to achieve the target of $200 billion by the end of this financial year.

    Reply

  6. DakotabornKansan says:

    The New Iranian Superpower?

    Reply

  7. Dan Kervick says:

    “So now we have Gates, Clinton and Obama sporting around the western Pacific and East Asia. Why? Nobody knows.”
    On the surface, this is one of the most obtuse comments I have ever read on TWN. If you don’t know why Obama is is in South and East Asia then you really need to wake up and expand your horizons. You don’t think jobs in the United States have anything to do with our trade with Asia? Weren’t you paying attention when Obama committed to doubling US exports?
    And precisely what is your plan, Don, for nation-building in Iraq, and establishing a government there?

    Reply

  8. meyers, peter alexander says:

    Nice view, Steve.

    Reply

  9. Dan Kervick says:

    “It is precisely BECAUSE Netanyahu represents an Israeli consensus that Bibi could form a Labor-Likud government.”
    If it is a consensus, it is a right-wing consensus, because Israel is increasingly a right-wing state with a right-wing population mobilized behind an ultranationalistic agenda. But Labor affiliation continues to shrink in any case, and Kadima was never part of the coalition.
    However, the consensus seems frayed. When A. Lieberman gave his UN speech, his remarks were rejected and derided by the other members of the “consensus”, with Labor claiming that the Foreign Minister of Israel, when he speaks abroad, actually does not represent the State of Israel. If that’s true, then I would suggest Israel get a new foreign minister, since in most countries in the world it is assumed that a country’s foreign minister represents his government’s position when he gives official speeches before international bodies.

    Reply

  10. nadine says:

    “Nadine, as you know, Labor received under 10% of the vote and has only 13 seats in the Knesset…Presenting this situation as some sort of left-right coalition is silly.” (Dan Kervick)
    No, not at all, Dan. If Netanyahu was really representing only right-wing views, Barak could not have joined without splintering Labor or having to subsequently bolt the government. It is precisely BECAUSE Netanyahu represents an Israeli consensus that Bibi could form a Labor-Likud government.
    Across the board, Israelis know there is no chance of success in a formal peace process, which Hamas et. al. can and will torpedo.
    However, there is good informal success working with the PA in keeping order and prosperity in the West Bank, as even Haaretz was forced to report. I’ll tell you a little secret: the PA doesn’t actually want a settlement freeze. When settlers build new houses, who do you think does the construction work?
    Across the board, Israelis have given up the dreams of Left and Right: the Right knows Greater Israel won’t happen, and the Left understands that concessions don’t lead to peace or diplomatic improvements in the “international community”. They’ve met in the middle: they will manage the conflict quietly.
    Across the board, Israelis know that Hamas should be kept under pressure (& Egypt agrees). This received a setback from Leftist pro-Hamas useful idiots trying to break the blockade and screaming about non-existent starvation in Gaza (as has now been widely admitted). Now Hamas has more money for rockets. Happy now? But they’re not shooting them yet, because Operation Cast Lead worked. Across the board, Israelis see that it worked.
    Across the board, Israelis know that Iran represents an existential threat to them, which that fool Obama, surrounded by unrealistic “realists”, refuses to notice. At least publicly, though I notice we have 3 aircraft carriers in the Gulf at this moment, quite the show.
    Across the board, Israelis approve of building in the major settlement blocs that everybody knows will stay in Israel in any future deal, which includes East Jerusalem.
    No, Netanyahu has been maneuvering very cleverly, both at home and abroad.

    Reply

  11. Kathleen says:

    Another view from windows
    Have folks read the news about the five protesters who interrupted Netanyahu

    Reply

  12. Don Bacon says:

    Obama doesn’t have to be goaded or provocked to say something stupid. His actions speak for him.
    The foreign country that Obama ran on, Iraq, hasn’t had a government for eight months and shows no signs of getting one. There are fifty thousand US troops there. Obama and Clinton, however, are AWOL.
    Obama has managed to extend the “war of necessity” in Afghanistan into Pakistan, and next into India. Afghanistan to AfPak to IndAfPak. And again, there has been none of the “strong diplomacy” that the golden toungue ran on, and again both Obama and Clinton are AWOL. No diplomacy.
    Joe Biden is doing his part. As the US plays the role of sponsor and arbiter of I/P Joe makes it crystal clear, once again, that his personal Zionism is undiminished and that no way does the uS have any credibility to sponsor peace talks.
    In the US of A we have the worst recession since the depression, three million less jobs than when Obama took over, a skyrocketing national debt that is approaching a hundred percent of GDP, unrestrained military spending and wholesale slaughter of the ruling party at the polls — and the president is AWOL after blaming the members of his poarty for the debacle.
    So now we have Gates, Clinton and Obama sporting around the western Pacific and East Asia. Why? Nobody knows.
    The REPUBLICANS have turned themselves into a purely made-for-television political entertainment theater troupe?

    Reply

  13. Dan Kervick says:

    BTW, Steve’s pic looks like it should be titled, “My Secret Garden.”

    Reply

  14. Dan Kervick says:

    POA, I know Netanyahu can be dangerous, just as I know some crazy underpants bomber could set off a major conflict with a suitably positioned self-detonation. But you don’t have to be smart, clever, wily or estimable to do that stuff. Sure, Netanyahu can start WWIII. But he’ll still just be the third-rate punk who started WWIII.

    Reply

  15. Dan Kervick says:

    Nadine, as you know, Labor received under 10% of the vote and has only 13 seats in the Knesset. The vast majority of the governing coalition is made up of right-wing, ultra-nationalist and ultra-Orthodox parties: Likud, YB, Shas, United Torah have 56 seats. Presenting this situation as some sort of left-right coalition is silly.
    But it’s interesting how eager you are now to run away from the right. What happened to the Glorious Conservative Revolution you guys enacted here in America just last week? And how are things going with that third party schismatic movement?
    It’s interesting watching the Republicans fall apart into squabbling and finger-pointing almost as quickly as they have assumed power, without even waiting for the disappointments of the post-honeymoon period to set in. They haven’t even waited for inauguration day.
    The Republicans have turned themselves into a purely made-for-television political entertainment theater troupe. Now that they are on the threshold of taking power, the sheer incongruity of that prospect, and the Republicans’ utter confusion about what their “governance” should actually consist in has set off a bizarrely early round of the blame game.

    Reply

  16. PissedOffAmerican says:

    “Netanyahu can have fun playing with the loony right’s representatives back in the United States, and meeting with our *vice* president, while Obama is visiting the 2nd, 4th, 10th and 26th most populated countries in the world”
    It won’t work, Dan. You can diss the influence Netanyau has all you want, and make light of it. But Netanyahu’s largest audience and body of supporters ARE NOT the “loony right”. It is the loony left. The IMPORTANT meetings this despicable racist thug is engaged with are with our Secretary of State and our Vice President.
    Yes, you can act as though Obama is out amongst the heavy hitters, doing far more important work than Netanyahu is doing here. But if the middle east becomes a blazing inferno, as Netanyahu may well ignite, it ain’t gonna manner diddly squat what Obama accomplishes on this sales trip. For immediate ramifications, this bastard Netanyahu and his subservient mewling pukes in DC have the power to take us into a hell we might never return from. It amazes me that you think its wise for Obama not to be forcefully engaging Netanyahu, face to face, with an iron fist.
    Basically, this posturing piece of shit Obama, KNOWING the fox is headed for the hen house, left the farm in the hands of idiots who are just as hungry for chicken as the fox is.
    The “punk” you so gravely underestimate is not beyond killing A LOT of Americans in a false flag attack designed to start a war with Iran, or, attacking Iran unilaterally, KNOWING the mewling subservient excrement in DC will come to Israel’s defense militarily.
    You make a huge mistake underestimating how dangerous Netanyahu is to our nation’s security, and how costly Obama’s cowardice may well prove to be.

    Reply

  17. Don Bacon says:

    nadine, your labels don’t mean anything. A criminal government that invades, destroys and starves neighboring lands countless times (Israel) is hardly liberal.
    Regarding threats to Americans, of course they are in danger when they (like Israel) invade, destroy and occupy other lands. They should expect to be.And they are — they have extensive weapons training so don’t worry about them.

    Reply

  18. nadine says:

    Dan Kervick, are you capable of noticing that the Israeli government is not right wing, but is a coalition of Labor (left) and Likud (right)? How can you expect anyone to take anything you say seriously, when you are laughably off-base on the basics.

    Reply

  19. nadine says:

    “Iran has control over much of the ME scenario. ” (DonS)
    They control much of the ME scenario, back Hizbullah, Hamas and Al Qaeda, and other proxies like Moqty al Sadr. Might I point out that the Iranian explosives have already killed thousands of American soldiers in Lebanon, Iraq and Afghanistan? And yet you claim they are no threat? What more would they have to do to qualify? Explain yourself, if you can.

    Reply

  20. nadine says:

    “We are only Muslims trying to defend our religion, people, homes and land, but if you call us terrorists, then we are proud terrorists and we will keep on terrorizing you until you leave our lands and people at peace,” he told U.S. District Judge Miriam Goldman Cedarbaum. . .The son of a Pakistani air force officer, Faisal Shahzad came to the United States to study at the age of 18 and in 2009 became a naturalized American citizen. . .Living in suburban Connecticut, he worked as a financial analyst and married another Pakistani-American, raising two children. But he said in a Taliban video that he became disillusioned with his estrangement from Islam and upset at what he considered humiliation of Muslims worldwide.
    It’s blowback, as Ron Paul has stated, for oppressive US military occupations in Muslim lands.”
    So it was an uncontrolable violent reaction to an oppressive US military occupation of a US citizen in suburban Connecticut. Just automatic blowback, no ideology involved.
    Can you understand how totally idiotic this sounds? These guys could blame everything on an oppressive US military occupation of Alpha Centuri, and you would buy it. Any excuse will do! This guy was an American citizen living in Connecticut, for crying out loud! He has no excuse for “blowback”! He made free a choice based on his own America-hating ideology…and you defend him, seeing him as an ally. But it’s nonsense on stilts regardless.

    Reply

  21. Dan Kervick says:

    Don Bacon,
    The scheduling of the Asia trip right after the election clearly shows where US strategic priorities are moving, and Netanyahu apparently wants to restore himself to the center of attention. He is clearly trying to goad and provoke Obama into doing or saying something stupid, and to elevate his own stature to something more than it merits.
    But Netanyahu is just a punk. The President of the United States is away on more important matters and shouldn’t lower himself to engage with the thuggish head of a wacky right-wing “government” just because that squeaky wheel wants more attention. Netanyahu can have fun playing with the loony right’s representatives back in the United States, and meeting with our *vice* president, while Obama is visiting the 2nd, 4th, 10th and 26th most populated countries in the world.

    Reply

  22. Dan Kervick says:

    DakotaBornKansan, Iran is not a superpower, and has not maneuvered itself into the superpower ranks. To suggest so is to fall into the same delusions about the largeness and gravity of Middle Eastern threats that feed neoconservative fevers and persecution fantasies.

    Reply

  23. DakotabornKansan says:

    Iranians have US on a slow boil

    Reply

  24. DakotabornKansan says:

    Modest Proposals?
    What

    Reply

  25. DonS says:

    “Incredibly, last night Vice President Joe Biden again offered up the “no daylight” formulation in a major speech to a Jewish organization in New Orleans. . . a few hours later . . .[Israel] announced another thousand new settlement units in East Jerusalem.” (Don B)
    That would be another ‘fuck you Joe/US’, or he’s on the payroll. Even Joe must be getting tired of being the house stooge.

    Reply

  26. DonS says:

    Wigwag, you may be extrapolating about the “silly little piece” you link to from it’s presentation. Not the standard form, formal presentation for sure. But, format aside, not without a reasonable vision, at least, of course, for those not blinded by the exigency of Islamiphobia. And I’m sure Steve will enjoy the view:
    “But our work strongly suggests that as long as the American public believes we are in a fight to the death with a fanatical enemy, it will be extremely difficult to change underlying public attitudes toward Islam and Muslims/Arabs in any significant or lasting way.”

    Reply

  27. Don Bacon says:

    from MJ Rosenberg, TPMCafe (quoted):
    While visiting Israel in March, Vice President Joe Biden delivered a speech that delighted the Israeli right and its followers here. The key passage was this: “When it comes to Israel’s security there can be no daylight – no daylight – between Israel and the US.”
    Within hours, the Israeli government responded to Biden’s endorsement by announcing that it would be building 1,600 new settler units in Arab East Jerusalem.
    Incredibly, last night Vice President Joe Biden again offered up the “no daylight” formulation in a major speech to a Jewish organization in New Orleans. . . a few hours later . . .[Israel] announced another thousand new settlement units in East Jerusalem.

    Reply

  28. Don Bacon says:

    Times Square–
    “We are only Muslims trying to defend our religion, people, homes and land, but if you call us terrorists, then we are proud terrorists and we will keep on terrorizing you until you leave our lands and people at peace,” he told U.S. District Judge Miriam Goldman Cedarbaum. . .The son of a Pakistani air force officer, Faisal Shahzad came to the United States to study at the age of 18 and in 2009 became a naturalized American citizen. . .Living in suburban Connecticut, he worked as a financial analyst and married another Pakistani-American, raising two children. But he said in a Taliban video that he became disillusioned with his estrangement from Islam and upset at what he considered humiliation of Muslims worldwide.
    It’s blowback, as Ron Paul has stated, for oppressive US military occupations in Muslim lands.

    Reply

  29. WigWag says:

    I am glad that Steve has a nice view from his window, but the “U.S. in the World Project” is a dimwitted project sponsored by a organization of dopes (Demos)
    A quick perusal of the organization’s website, that Steve was kind enough to link to, tells it all.
    Anyone who wants proof need read no further than this silly little piece featured on the front page of the website,
    http://usintheworld.org/?p=1080
    It’s really hard to believe what passes as intelligent discourse to the preternaturally effete staff at the Rockefeller Brothers Fund.
    Perhaps the content of the meeting Steve will be attending will be more worthwhile than the content of the “U.S. in the World Project’s” website.
    If not, my guess is that the view will be the only thing Steve will be enjoying this week.

    Reply

  30. DonS says:

    . . . and “catbird seat”, at least in the South , denotes one in control. Iran has control over much of the ME scenario. Thanks mostly to the utter stupidity of the US, in a bipartisan way of course. To deny Iran it’s rightful place as a power, as the neocon-influenced narrative would have it, it’s the ultimate in jingoistic swagger.

    Reply

  31. DonS says:

    “BTW, is Iran no threat to anybody or “in the catbird seat”? You and DonS seem on different pages.”
    It’s both. And it depends on what your definition of ‘threat’ is. And Iran isn’t a threat to the US in any physical way. It is a foil for the threat that Israeli/AIPAC politics represents.
    Iran is no threat to the US.

    Reply

  32. nadine says:

    “Bin Laden’s principal gripe was the US military in Saudi Arabia, and it was enough to get the US out of that country. Unfortunately the US military is still occupying other countries so the resistance continues, by many people, while US security is weakened thereby.” (Don Bacon)
    US troops were in KSA to proctect it against Saddam Hussein. There was no need for them after Saddam Hussein fell.
    “The oppressive US military occupation of Muslim lands naturally causes a violent reaction from the inhabitants of these lands. This reaction is manifested in many ways, from IEDs on local roads to snipers to suicide bombers. Robert Pape has found a direct correlation between foreign military occupations and suicide bombers. The most recent (failed) one in Times Square was an example.”
    Now Times Square is a foreign occupation? The bomber was an American Muslim. This is an argument stretched to absurdity. Pape refuses to see the ideological forest for the tactical trees. According to Radical Islam, any place on earth that hasn’t submitted to Allah is a “foreign occupation” and an attack on Islam. Naturally, if US troops are actually in a Muslim country, even if they liberate it from a bloody dictator that was loathed by 99% of the people, the people will have 10 minutes to say “thank you” before the radicals start screaming “kill the infidel!” and start massacring their fellow Muslims who don’t get with the program.
    Really, have you noticed that you talk about “causing a violent reaction” as if Muslims were robots?
    BTW, is Iran no threat to anybody or “in the catbird seat”? You and DonS seem on different pages.

    Reply

  33. Don Bacon says:

    Some good may come from the Tea Party.
    Sen.-elect Paul: GOP must consider military cuts
    By AP 11/07/2010
    WASHINGTON (AP)

    Reply

  34. Don Bacon says:

    terrorist: (DOD) An individual who commits an act or acts of violence or threatens violence in pursuit of political, religious, or ideological objectives.
    As opposed to a country that does so, which is an anti-terrorist. This is merely Orwellian double-speak for making US military imperialism (as in the Iraq fiasco, and others) appear to be a superior mode of activity where talking to the people in countries that the US invades and occupies has to somehow be at “an appropriate time and [be] morally supportable.”
    The oppressive US military occupation of Muslim lands naturally causes a violent reaction from the inhabitants of these lands. This reaction is manifested in many ways, from IEDs on local roads to snipers to suicide bombers. Robert Pape has found a direct correlation between foreign military occupations and suicide bombers. The most recent (failed) one in Times Square was an example.
    It is an entirely human reaction. If the Chinese Army ocupies my city I’m not going to be content with hiding under the bed. And I’m not about to talk to them about it. Think Concord and Lexington, by the rude bridge that arched the flood, etc.
    Bin Laden’s principal gripe was the US military in Saudi Arabia, and it was enough to get the US out of that country. Unfortunately the US military is still occupying other countries so the resistance continues, by many people, while US security is weakened thereby.
    Bin Laden and the fertile fields for Al Qaidah memes are simply the propaganda-driven personification of a deeper problem. They don’t hate us for who we are but for what we do.

    Reply

  35. DonS says:

    “Now perhaps we can return to discussing the reality of Iranian nuclear development….” (nadine)
    We weren’t discussing this. We were discussing why Iran does not represent a threat, despite the wailings of neoconservative on crack Graham and, it appears, you.
    Iran does not represent a threat to the US despite your twistings and projecting of all evidence to fit YOUR preconceived notion.
    You even manage to find it reasonable, I guess, to project that Obama sees Iran as “a misunderstanding that must have been caused by US bad behavior” Now exactly what stereotype are you projecting that from? Don’t tell me, I know it comes out of your bag of ‘everyone more liberal that Hannity is a dirty fucking leftist’.
    You are one twisted pretzel and I second the wish that you would find your way to some remote outpost where you could abuse some Arabs to vent your spleen instead of here.

    Reply

  36. Don Bacon says:

    America beat itself.
    Iran’s in the catbird seat thanks mostly to US stupidity. After supporting secular Iraq in a war against Shi’ite Iran, during which time the US also sold arms to Iran (Iran Contra), the US turned on Iraq and defeated it, allowing an Iran-allied Shi’ite government in Baghdad. The vaunted surge in Iraq made sure that the Sunni remnants and other anti-government elements were neutered, thus increasing Iran’s security.
    Now Iran enjoys strong allies, including Turkey and China, as well as Lebanon, Syria, the -Stans and the 118-nation Non-Aligned Movement. Iran’s enemies are limited to the US and five allies.
    China is also a winner. Chinese companies have invested a staggering $120 billion in Iran’s energy sector over the past five years. Already Iran is China

    Reply

  37. nadine says:

    Dakota, Bush talked the talk about bringing the war home to the Terror Masters – the states that sponsor terror – but he never walked the walk. The chief terror masters have been Iran and Syria and Pakistan and Saudi Arabia – none of whom was made to pay any significant price.
    And of course, Obama is too stupid and ideological to even understand the game Iran is playing. For him, it’s all a misunderstanding that must have been caused by US bad behavior. Iran’s religious fanaticism and desire for empire don’t even register in his limited understanding.

    Reply

  38. nadine says:

    “nadine, you’re floundering because you don’t know that the meaning of “scenario” implies a fictitious outline, a a synthetic description of a situation. ” (Don Bacon)
    Oh, so when you said “there are three possible scenarios” you weren’t implying that your scenarios covered the likely possibilities? They were just “ficticious outlines”?
    I said your argument contradict each other, and your answer is that you know your scenarios are fictional. So you admit your scenarios have nothing to do with assessing the true situation, and were not intended as supporting evidence. Hey, I agree!
    Now perhaps we can return to discussing the reality of Iranian nuclear development….

    Reply

  39. DakotabornKansan says:

    How Iran Beat America
    Just started reading Robert Baer

    Reply

  40. Don Bacon says:

    nadine, you’re floundering because you don’t know that the meaning of “scenario” implies a fictitious outline, a a synthetic description of a situation.
    You’re confusing scenario with truth, perhaps intentionally so that you can tell us about “this pattern developing in the Left for the last 20 years” that you’re perceptively noticed.

    Reply

  41. nadine says:

    I forgot to add:
    Since your goal is to prevent a military attack on Iran, their innocence of nuclear weapons development or their already possessing the bomb will do equally well as reasons not to attack, so you argue both at once, even though the two lines of argument contradict each other. This is what I mean by “total goal oriented logic”.

    Reply

  42. Don Bacon says:

    Good cop (US) bad cop (Israel). Childish. Israel doesn’t have a death wish, so that scenario is out too. Why waste time on stupid people? (Not that I never do.)

    Reply

  43. Don Bacon says:

    DonS: “[Graham] wants to wipe out Iranian military capability at all levels”
    from WaPo (short for War Positive):
    Repeating comments he has made before on Iran, Graham said Obama would earn Republican backing if he went beyond sanctions and made

    Reply

  44. DakotabornKansan says:

    Nice view!

    Reply

  45. DonS says:

    By the way, could there be a bigger threat to US security than Lindsey Graham (maybe Joe L), who appears so exited about the midterm results that he wants to wipe out Iranian military capability at all levels. . . Even though such a stupid move would decouple US policy from any support around the world, or within the Iranian opposition
    Even Ken Pollack thinks it’s nuts and counterproductive:
    ” . . .Ken Pollack of the Brookings Institution wrote that an attack of the sort that Sen. Graham is calling for

    Reply

  46. DonS says:

    . . . the huge elephant in the room, that get’s lip service at best, that expanding ‘efforts’ to ‘kill the terrorists’ very likely creates more ‘terrorists’ in disproportionate numbers. But of course since the govt or the think tankers can’t put a methodology or a number on it, it doesn’t matter. Only it does. But, when you’ve got a military hammer, everything looks like a nail.

    Reply

  47. Don Bacon says:

    Please don’t fail to emphasize that current US military activities actually harm US security interests (as you have hinted at).

    Reply

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