Open Thread: Oakley Weighs in on Israel-Palestine Peace

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oakley at christmas weimaraner.jpg
Oakley the Amazing Weimaraner sent this note to me during my travels this week in Israel and Palestine:

There is no such thing as peace. Only equilibrium.

Something to think about. Clearly, he is making a play for a bone.
Perhaps my friend Daniel Levy should change the name of his blog from Prospects for Peace to Prospects for Equilibrium.
— Steve Clemons

Comments

21 comments on “Open Thread: Oakley Weighs in on Israel-Palestine Peace

  1. Kathleen says:

    Hi Guys… I’ve missed all of you…greetings from Chuck Hagel Country.. of all things I’m writing from the lobby of the hotel in Omaha, where I unexpectedly had to fly this past week because my son-in-law had to be flown to the University of Nebraska Medical Heart Transplant Center… scarey stuff.. neeedless to say, I’ve been out of it and will be for some time.. things are stabilized, finally and he’s on the waiting list for a new heart. He caught an airborn virus from a windstorm that blew across big feed lots, as best I can understand, that attacked his heart…apparently it’s not that uncommon in the Mid West the infectious disease specialist said, one of the hazards of living in the Mid West, as she put it.
    This is the first time I’ve actually spent more than a drive through in a Red State..hopefully it will be the last and Red States will be a thing of the past.
    I’ll tune in again when I can… wish us luck..
    Steve.. hope you can get some 955896thing meaningful done in the Mid East where I am sure there are other hazards. Maybe you can say “Can’t we all get along, little doggy, get along”.

    Reply

  2. Kathleen says:

    Hi Guys… I’ve missed all of you…greetings from Chuck Hagel Country.. of all things I’m writing from the lobby of the hotel in Omaha, where I unexpectedly had to fly this past week because my son-in-law had to be flown to the University of Nebraska Medical Heart Transplant Center… scarey stuff.. neeedless to say, I’ve been out of it and will be for some time.. things are stabilized, finally and he’s on the waiting list for a new heart. He caught an airborn virus from a windstorm that blew across big feed lots, as best I can understand, that attacked his heart…apparently it’s not that uncommon in the Mid West the infectious disease specialist said, one of the hazards of living in the Mid West, as she put it.
    This is the first time I’ve actually spent more than a drive through in a Red State..hopefully it will be the last and Red States will be a thing of the past.
    I’ll tune in again when I can… wish us luck..
    Steve.. hope you can get some 955896thing meaningful done in the Mid East where I am sure there are other hazards. Maybe you can say “Can’t we all get along, little doggy, get along”.

    Reply

  3. Kathleen says:

    Hi Guys… I’ve missed all of you…greetings from Chuck Hagel Country.. of all things I’m writing from the lobby of the hotel in Omaha, where I unexpectedly had to fly this past week because my son-in-law had to be flown to the University of Nebraska Medical Heart Transplant Center… scarey stuff.. neeedless to say, I’ve been out of it and will be for some time.. things are stabilized, finally and he’s on the waiting list for a new heart. He caught an airborn virus from a windstorm that blew across big feed lots, as best I can understand, that attacked his heart…apparently it’s not that uncommon in the Mid West the infectious disease specialist said, one of the hazards of living in the Mid West, as she put it.
    This is the first time I’ve actually spent more than a drive through in a Red State..hopefully it will be the last and Red States will be a thing of the past.
    I’ll tune in again when I can… wish us luck..
    Steve.. hope you can get some 955896thing meaningful done in the Mid East where I am sure there are other hazards. Maybe you can say “Can’t we all get along, little doggy, get along”.

    Reply

  4. Kathleen says:

    Hi Guys… I’ve missed all of you…greetings from Chuck Hagel Country.. of all things I’m writing from the lobby of the hotel in Omaha, where I unexpectedly had to fly this past week because my son-in-law had to be flown to the University of Nebraska Medical Heart Transplant Center… scarey stuff.. neeedless to say, I’ve been out of it and will be for some time.. things are stabilized, finally and he’s on the waiting list for a new heart. He caught an airborn virus from a windstorm that blew across big feed lots, as best I can understand, that attacked his heart…apparently it’s not that uncommon in the Mid West the infectious disease specialist said, one of the hazards of living in the Mid West, as she put it.
    This is the first time I’ve actually spent more than a drive through in a Red State..hopefully it will be the last and Red States will be a thing of the past.
    I’ll tune in again when I can… wish us luck..
    Steve.. hope you can get some 955896thing meaningful done in the Mid East where I am sure there are other hazards. Maybe you can say “Can’t we all get along, little doggy, get along”.

    Reply

  5. Mr.Murder says:

    Here’s to hoping things are peaceful in Oakley’s time. Not too Chamberlain-ish of me to say that?

    Reply

  6. erichwwk says:

    Carroll writes:
    Huh?…does this mean we should call the past 50 years “process” in Isr-Pal a peace.
    Of course not.
    The past 50 years process has been a “war” process, despite what words were used to describe it, just as our Department of “Defense” is more accurately described as a Department of “Offense”, if one uses Webster’s, rather than Humpty Dumpty to define words.
    The creation of Israel itself, was not a peaceful process, but one of tyranny, against the unanimous opposition of the Arabian states. The UN vote is reminiscent of Moyer’s definition of democracy:
    “two coyotes and one sheep deciding what to have for dinner”.
    “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.”
    “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
    “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master — that’s all.”

    Reply

  7. PissedOffAmerican says:

    All day long I have tried to define that look Oakley has on her face.
    Well, my dog Jake just made me remember.
    Whew, man, that stinks.

    Reply

  8. Cee says:

    As Oakley looks through that gate, he knows how the people in Gaza feel.

    Reply

  9. susan says:

    I love Oakley as much as anyone, but his nose is getting the inside of my computer screen all wet and smeared.

    Reply

  10. Delia says:

    In my considered experience, what Oakley wants is a nice long walk.
    As Cesar Millan insists, dogs live in the present and are happy to drop unacceptable behaviors when their pack leader makes the necessary changes in his or her behavior. If only humans could become balanced so easily. Or if Bush and Cheney could find a calm assertive pack leader who could teach them how to behave.

    Reply

  11. Delia says:

    In my considered experience, what Oakley wants is a nice long walk.
    As Cesar Millan insists, dogs live in the present and are happy to drop unacceptable behaviors when their pack leader makes the necessary changes in his or her behavior. If only humans could become balanced so easily. Or if Bush and Cheney could find a calm assertive pack leader who could teach them how to behave.

    Reply

  12. David N says:

    Caroll:
    The last fifty years is called exactly that: The MEPP (Middle East Peace Process).
    I think that Oakley’s point is more general and more philosophical that we’re giving her credit for. I didn’t know she had read Popper!!
    The point is, politicians tend to try to sell their policies and solutions as a means to attain some kind of “final solution” (yes, I know what that refers to, and I use the terms with hesitation, but knowingly.)
    Thus, Bush tried to sell his destruction of the Social Security System as a way to “fix it, once and for all,” as if that would mean anything other than destroying it.
    The fact is, as Popper says, permanent solutions to any problem are usually based on ideology, and usually pave the path to totalitarianism. Far better, in any realm, to follow the path of ‘muddling through’ (Popper’s term). Solve the problem in front of you, because no single ideology is comprehensive enough to guide us through anything near as complex as human nature and society.
    This is the lesson of game theory, complexity theory, and evolutionary theory. Complete, final, static solutions are recipes for stasis, which is another word for death.
    But then, as we know, the Republicans are the party of death. We know this because they say so.
    Bet you thought I’d hold off trashing the Republicans just one time? No way!!

    Reply

  13. susan says:

    http://www.washington-report.org/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm
    Economic Downturn – Policy Change?
    The most important issue for U.S. voters is the current economic downturn. It is important to point out to them that the economic mailaise is a direct consequence of rightwing policies.
    The U.S. puts a higher percentage of its population into jail than any dictatorship in this world. This is very expensive and driven by rightwing “law and order” policies and false incentives, i.e. privatization of prisons and lobbying by prison owners.
    In 2007, according to the National Association of State Budget Officers, states spent $44 billion in tax dollars on corrections. That is up from $10.6 billion in 1987, a 127 percent increase when adjusted for inflation.
    Crime rates in comparable countries with less people incarcerated are generally lower than in the U.S. So why should this expensive policy continue?
    The War on Iraq and Afghanistan will cost the U.S. some $3+ trillion. What do the taxpayers get for $138 per month they are paying for these wars (other than the right to also pay $103 per barrel of oil)?
    Support of Israel has cost the U.S. taxpayer a lot of money. What is the positive result from this investment? Currently the USS Cole and the amphibious assault ship USS Nassau are on the way to the Lebanese coast to cover for an Israeli attack on Gaza. How much does this cost? What is the return?
    The current economic downturn will highlight these questions.
    The above policies should all be changed for other than financial reasons. But I’ll not be picky if they will be changed because of financial pressure on the U.S. population.
    Can we hope that taxpayers will demand and end to these policies because of their costs?
    http://www.moonofalabama.org/

    Reply

  14. bubba says:

    Wise, Oakley is. Too bad he hasn’t been Secretary of State these past 7 year. Could not have done worse, and likely would have done better, than the past two SoSs.

    Reply

  15. Questions says:

    Who said “Act so that the maxim of your action can be willed as a universal law” and “Act so that you treat all rational creatures not merely as means to your end, but also as ends in themselves”? There’s the pre-condition for real peace. All I am saying is give Kant a chance….

    Reply

  16. Oakley Dog says:

    In my doggie daydreams I see a future where all the homeless Palestinian puppies in desperate need of love and fresh water enjoy the luxuries my Israeli and American pack members take for granted every day.
    — Oakley Dog in Clinton Country

    Reply

  17. Joe M. says:

    Dear Mr. Clemons,
    Please be bold enough to meet with Hamas leaders while in occupied Palestine. I find it very disheartening that so many policy people advocate direct talks with groups such as Hamas, yet they themselves are to cowardly to do so. I don’t know whether you advocate talking to Hamas in general, but you would make an important contribution to peace to meet with them formally.
    Best of luck,
    Joe

    Reply

  18. Carroll says:

    whereas peace is best viewed as a means or process, and not an end.
    Posted by erichwwk at February 29, 2008 10:53 AM
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Huh?…does this mean we should call the past 50 years “process” in Isr-Pal a peace.

    Reply

  19. erichwwk says:

    While I readily concede that relying on Oakley’s advice may well be preferable to relying on the “wisdom” of our federal politicians, in this case
    Oakley appears to be comparing apples to oranges. While both terms have both static and dynamic counterparts, one generally thinks of equilibrium as at outcome of processes,i.e. an end, whereas peace is best viewed as a means or process, and not an end.

    Reply

  20. Carroll says:

    My friend’s doberman says equilibrium is nothing but more of the same.
    What percentage of Palestine hasn’t yet been eaten up by Israel? I don’t expect this to end till Isr reaches 100%. Isn’t that the plan?

    Reply

  21. liz says:

    Oakley deserves a bone Steve!!
    There will be peace but it will take a ” miracle” to achieve it….. meanwhile, equilibrium works.

    Reply

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