More Good Stuff for the “Biden Brief”

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biden hagel.jpg
Joe Biden‘s selection as Vice President doubles the chances that Senator Chuck Hagel will be selected as Barack Obama’s Secretary of State, which this writer considers positively.
Joe Biden was a key partner with many NGOs and this blog in stopping John Bolton’s confirmation as US Ambassador to the United Nations.
When President Bush essentially threw the Baker-Hamilton Iraq Study Group into the trash, Joe Biden embraced it and held numerous Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearings to make sure that the core elements of the Study Group report were positioned well for public attention.
Biden voted against the Kyl-Lieberman IRGC amendment that would have provided another “Iraq War Resolution-like” loophole for Iran.
After President Bush’s provocative State of the Union and post-Iraq Study Group “Statement to the Nation” speeches in 2007, in which both the Wall Street Journal and I thought Bush was telegraphing that he had given permission for covert actions against Iran, the next morning, Biden pounded on Condoleezza Rice and said “the President has no authorization to invade or conduct covert operations against Iran.”
Good stuff — and it belongs in the Biden brief.
— Steve Clemons

Comments

94 comments on “More Good Stuff for the “Biden Brief”

  1. Kathleen says:

    Sythe…wow…I hope your Mom isn’t counting on you for any appreciation or kindness…..make room for the brat generation…

    Reply

  2. WigWag says:

    Wow, Sythe. If you edit your comment properly, it could easily be a 30 second spot for Senator Obama,

    Reply

  3. Sythe says:

    C’mon, Wiggy is just a mischievous old bitty in retirement in Florida tweaking all your noses. She seems to have nothing better to do in her old age than to provoke responses in others to her delight. But its much deeper than that. She knows the jig is up, the con some people of her generation have perpetrated is over. It’s her bitter good-bye. She pleasures in harassing the younger generation on these blogs, an all out assault on the hopes and dreams on the young as she knows her day IS past. That’s what we are witnessing in WigWag, an old cootie knowing the old ways are in their final throes and her bitterness that she is fast approaching her hour of death, while the youthful and hopeful live on as she rots underground in Florida.
    Wiggy there is no afterlife for you, just Death after writhing in the agonies of your final hour, hissing and gnashing right up onto death rattle. But while you still breathe feel free to darken our lives and seal your fate, for there is no Light left in you.
    Out with the Old, and in with the Youth.

    Reply

  4. WigWag says:

    That’s right POA. I’m just here to irritate Washington Note readers. If you don’t like it moron, don’t read what I write. Sure, POA, I’m the immature jackass. I’m the one who writes like Elmer Fudd; I’m the one who compares people to donkeys mules and horses.
    “And turned the Mexican trucking issue into some childish horseshit about Mexicans, instead of the security, safety, and commerce issue it is.”
    Oh, it’s abot your security, your safety and your commerce. You sound exactly like the Isareli settlers on the West Bank. That’s what they say. It’s about their security, their safety and their commerce.
    But of course you sound like them POA, you’re a settler like they are.
    And it would seem that you’re just as big of a bigot!
    But POA, you have those Israeli settlers beat on one count; hypocracy. Many of them admit what they are. You won’t admit what you are.
    But everyone who reads what you write, knows what you are.

    Reply

  5. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Well, Wigwag has made an asshole of himself again. And turned the Mexican trucking issue into some childish horseshit about Mexicans, instead of the security, safety, and commerce issue it is.
    The way Wigwag has latched onto this asinine and obssesive line of argument buttresses Kervick’s hypothesis that WigWag is just some immature jackass posting for attention. Such a construct of straw and deflection cannot possibly be a construct born of conviction or honest intellectual argument. So that tells us that this WigWag jackass is just here to disrupt the forum, waste space, and irritate his readers.
    Screw ‘im.

    Reply

  6. WigWag says:

    “Unfortunately history has proven that Hal’chem is right about this.”
    As I said, you are incorrect. I was merely making the point that the doctrine of Manifest Destiny was at its core a religious ideology. I never suggested that I agreed with the concept of manifest destiny.
    You are a little bit too literal, Paul

    Reply

  7. Paul Norheim says:

    “Posted by WigWag Aug 27, 8:08PM – Link
    “Americans do the same. Isn’t it that God told Americans it was
    their duty to sweep across their continent and prosper on lands
    occupied by heathen savages? All peoples do it, and its best to
    ensure that if there is any doing to be done that you are the
    doer, than the done in.”
    Unfortunately history has proven that Hal’chem is right about
    this.”
    ————————————–
    You agreed with Hal`chem, and did not distance yourself from
    the rest of his short comment, which in total was a defense of
    the concept of Lebensraum, after a request made by me. Your
    alarm belles didn`t ring. No further comment.

    Reply

  8. WigWag says:

    To Paul Norheim
    “You seem to agree with your friend Hal`chem, who says…”
    Paul, nothing that I’ve said on this thread or elsewhere suggests that I do. If you think I am agreeing with him you are misunderstanding what I am saying.
    “I notice that even Sweetness and Questions are stunned or embarrassed by your recent ways of “having fun” at TWN”
    Paul, you should give me more credit. Do you have any idea how hard it is to have three personalities inside my head at the same time, all of whom have opposing points of view? When one of my personalities is embarrassed by the other, it causes major cognitive dissonance that gives me indigestion.
    And I did make one mistake when I responded to you earlier. Not only have I been to Copenhagen and Aarhus, but I did spend a day in Malmo, Sweden as well.
    To Sweetness:
    This statement that you attributed to me was not made by me:
    “Americans do the same. Isn’t it that God told Americans it was their duty to sweep across their continent and prosper on lands occupied by heathen savages? All peoples do it, and its best to ensure that if there is any doing to be done that you are the doer, than the done in.”
    You say “No arguing about the history, but shouldn’t we try to do better as we go along?”
    Of course, the Israelis need to do better. As I said, because they are not willing to grant full rights of citizenship to Palestinian people on the West Bank, they need to relinquish the West Bank.
    But the Americans need to do better too. They need to let Mexican workers in to work on land that should rightfully be theirs, they have to let Mexican truck drivers operate here and they need to tear down the wall.
    To disagree is to be a hypocrite.
    You say, “Yes. But I do think (again) there’s a time factor. If Israel were a lot older, then presumably she’d be in the same position as the US and Canada or Mexico or the Central and South American countries.”
    I think that time does matter. Hopefully history progresses in the direction of a better, more generous, less bigoted world. That’s why I am willing to give the Scandinavians a pass. But the Southwest and California were “stolen” from the Mexicans only about 100 years before the Israelis “stole” Palestinian land from Jordan in 1967. It’s hard to figure out how to redress any wrongs done by the Vikings 1,000 years ago, but it’s easy to contemplate how to ameliorate the wrongs done to the Palestinians and the Mexicans. To redress the wrong that we did to the Mexicans, all we have to do is open the border. Americans cannot logically support redressing Palestinian grievances and not support redressing Mexican grievances.
    You say, “Why stop with the Southwest? We’re ALL living on Native American land. Period. Were they ever compensated for it? No. Were the slaves and descendants of slaves ever compensated for the labor and lives stolen from them?”
    I think you’re right. I think we should go for it. And I think that anyone who thinks the Israelis need to make reparations to the Palestinians but don’t think that Americans need to make reparations to Native Americans and to Mexico and to the descendants of slaves is morally obtuse.
    But even if we can’t all agree on all of this, can’t we all agree that Mexican truck drivers are as ethically entitled to travel US highways as American truck drivers are?
    Isn’t that the least we could do?

    Reply

  9. Tahoe Editor says:

    What’s with all the Promised Land spam on your blog these days, Steve?

    Reply

  10. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Israel currently has 223 Jewish-only settlements and ‘outposts’ built on confiscated Palestinian land.

    Reply

  11. PissedOffAmerican says:

    http://www.peacenow.org.il/site/en/peace.asp?pi=66&docid=3358
    Last Two Months – Mass Construction in East Jerusalem
    07/08/2008
    Today Israel Lands Authority published tenders for construction of 130 Housing Units in Har Homa, East Jerusalem.
    At the Annapolis Summit Israel committed to freezing all settlement growth and to reach a peace agreement within the year.
    Since then Israel has published tenders for a total of 1,761 housing units in East Jerusalem alone.
    While Olmert met with Abu Mazen in Jerusalem yesterday, his government was already planning further construction in the city.
    Peace Now: Once again this government has shown that its words and commitments are meaningless and they have no intention of keeping to their word.

    Reply

  12. PissedOffAmerican says:

    http://www.peacenow.org.il/site/en/peace.asp?pi=66&docid=3371
    Migron – The State Declares: The Outpost will be transferred to another Location in the West Bank
    13/08/2008
    In October 2006 Peace Now together with the Palestinian Land owners petitioned the Supreme Court over the establishment of the outpost Migron in the West Bank. The petitioners requested an immediate evacuation of the settlers, as the entire outpost was established on privately owned Palestinian land.
    Today, after many postponements and hearings the state declared (document in Hebrew) that the Yesha Council has agreed to decide within 30 days to which location to transfer the outpost of Migron.
    Peace Now: The significance of this statement is that the state has no intention to evacuate and dismantle the outpost of Migron. The establishment of a new settlement is an impossibility politically. Thus this process of establishing a new settlement will most certainly take many years and with the political system as it is today it is clear to all that this evacuation will not take place in the near future.

    Reply

  13. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Eliminating the Green Line – New Report by Peace Now
    26/08/2008
    In recent years the trend has accelerated to eliminate the Green Line through intensive construction intended to create a territorial connection between the blocks of settlements and isolated settlements in the heart of the West Bank.
    For the report…..
    http://www.peacenow.org.il/site/en/peace.asp?pi=61&docid=3380

    Reply

  14. PissedOffAmerican says:

    http://www.antiwar.com/ips/frykberg.php?articleid=13371
    Israel Pushes Ahead with Settlement Expansion
    by Mel Frykberg
    JERUSALEM – Israel has published tenders for the construction of 1,761 illegal housing units for Israeli settlers in occupied east Jerusalem alone, according to the Israeli rights group Peace Now.
    The expansion plans come despite promises by the Israeli government at last year’s peace summit at Annapolis, Maryland (in the US) to freeze all settlement growth.
    “Once again this government has shown that its words and commitments are meaningless, and they have no intention of keeping to their word,” says Peace Now.
    United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has stressed repeatedly that settlement construction or expansion in the West Bank is contrary to international law and Israel’s commitments under the ‘road map’ peace process.
    The road map was a series of peace-building measures proposed by US President George W. Bush in 2002 and subsequently developed by the diplomatic Quartet of the European Union, the United Nations, Russia and the United States.
    Ban Ki-moon further urged Israel to freeze all settlement activity and to dismantle outposts erected since March of 2001.
    US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, normally a diehard supporter of Israel, also expressed her concern about the settlement building during her last visit to Israel several months ago.
    “It’s important to have an atmosphere of confidence and trust,” Rice said following talks she held with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas in Ramallah. “The United States believes that the (settlement) actions and the announcements that are taking place are indeed having a negative effect on the atmosphere for negotiation.”
    The new construction should not be allowed to shape future Israeli-Palestinian borders, which remain under negotiation, Rice said. “The United States will not let these activities have any effect on final status negotiations, including final borders.”
    The Geneva Conventions specifically forbid the transfer of a civilian population into occupied territory.
    But even as Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert was meeting with Abbas in Jerusalem last week in an endeavor to further the peace process, plans for further settlement construction were already under way.
    At the beginning of the month, prior to Peace Now’s statement, the Israel Lands Authority published tenders for the construction of 130 new housing units in Har Homa, East Jerusalem.
    The Har Homa neighborhood and all east Jerusalem settlements were built on land Israel occupied in the 1967 Arab-Israeli war. Israel subsequently incorporated the areas into Jerusalem’s boundaries in a move not recognized internationally.
    In addition to the public announcement of the tenders, there are currently 500 houses already under construction in Har Homa, and 240 in the settlement of Maaleh Adumim in East Jerusalem.
    At the same time as the Har Homa tenders were being published, Israeli officials also called for bids from construction companies to build more than 300 apartments in the West Bank settlement of Beitar Illit near Bethlehem, and about 20 minutes drive from Jerusalem.
    This came on top of Olmert’s approval at the beginning of the year to build 750 new houses in the Givat Zeev settlement northwest of Jerusalem, and 100 in the Ariel settlement in the northern West Bank.
    There are approximately 430,000 Israeli settlers residing illegally in the West Bank.
    According to Israeli advocacy group B’Tselem, Israel has established 135 settlements in the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) that have been recognized by the Interior Ministry. Additionally, dozens of outposts of varying size have been established.
    Sixteen settlements were established in the Gaza Strip and subsequently dismantled in 2005 during the implementation of the ‘disengagement plan’.
    Land expropriation from Palestinian farmers for the building and enlargement of Israeli settlements has caused undue hardship and economic suffering for Palestinians, and some have initiated acts of civil disobedience in a bid to retain the pieces of agricultural land that have not been confiscated.
    The villagers of Bil’in and Ni’ilin near Ramallah in the central West Bank, together with international activists and Israeli sympathizers, have staged weekly protests that have resulted in a number of deaths, arrests and injuries. The most infamous incident was the blindfolding, handcuffing and shooting of Ni’ilin resident Ashraf Abu Rahma.
    The villagers of Ni’ilin have been protesting land expropriation which has seen the size of their village reduced from 5,700 hectares of land in 1948 to 3,300 hectares in 1967, to the present approximate of 1,000 hectares.
    Ni’ilin olives farmer Bahjat Mesleh told IPS he had lost about 75 dunams (10 dunams is one hectare) of land to make way for the building of the separation barrier which divides Israel from the West Bank.
    “This has cost me about 25,000 dollars, and I am more fortunate than other farmers as I’ve been able to continue supporting my family by working as a teacher. Not all farmers have been able to continue a livelihood,” said Mesleh.
    According to B’Tselem, “Israel has stolen thousands of dunams of land from the Palestinians. Israel forbids Palestinians to enter and use these lands, and uses the settlements to justify numerous violations of Palestinian rights, such as the right to housing, to earn a living, and freedom of movement.
    “The settlers, on the other hand, benefit from all rights given to citizens of Israel who live inside the Green Line, and in some instances, even additional rights.”
    The principal tool used to take control of land is to declare it state land. This process began in 1979, and is based on a manipulative implementation of the Ottoman Lands Law of 1858, which applied in the area at the time of occupation.
    Other methods employed by Israel to take control of land include seizure for military needs, declaration of land as “abandoned assets”, and the expropriation of land for public needs.

    Reply

  15. Tahoe Editor says:

    Looks like we ran out of “good stuff for the Biden brief” a while back.
    JEFFREY TOOBIN: “He stumbled a lot in delivering what he thought were his best lines … not thematically together … there was not a single memorable theme. Yes, he kept saying, ‘That’s Not Change’, but I do not think it was a very effective speech.”
    DAVID GERGEN: “I think Jeffrey Toobin is on to something.”
    “John McCain was wrong. And Barack Obama was right. John McCain was wrong. And Barack Obama was right. John McCain was wrong. And Barack Obama was right.” —Joe Biden
    I caught a glimpse of Teresa Heinz Kerry seated next to Michelle. When Biden started repeating this line, she gave Michelle a look like, “Are you buying this?”
    Obama on Biden:
    “Joe Biden is salt of the earth (unlike me).”
    “There are very few people who have the depth of experience of Joe Biden (unlike me).”
    “Joe has unequaled foreign policy credentials (unlike me).”
    Biden Hearts McCain
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12781.html
    The Creepy Plagiarism of Joe Biden
    http://www.slate.com/id/2198597/pagenum/all/#page_start
    Did Biden Worsen the Mortgage Crisis?
    http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?entry=9180

    Reply

  16. Paul Norheim says:

    WigWag,
    partly, but just partly, due to the invasion of England by the
    vikings 1000 years ago, english and norwegian have some
    similarities. According to the norwegian version of Wikipedia,
    the expression is related to words in the Bible. Literally
    translated, your expression goes:
    “Folk som lever i glasshus skulle ikke kaste steiner.”
    We frequently blame people for “Ã¥ kaste stein i glasshus”.
    But then, it looks to me as if you`re saying that if you live in
    California or Scandinavia (as well as most other parts of the
    world), you are not entitled to criticize the Israelis: you live in a
    glass house, so please shut up!
    If you`re a pensioner in Florida, that`s a different story: they
    don`t build glass houses there. This gives you plenty of options
    on the moral arena, among them filling up this blog by random
    allegations of “sexism”. Hypothetically you could even criticize
    the Israelis. But you don`t want to do that. You seem to agree
    with your friend Hal`chem, who says:
    “Seeking more living space for your people is a prime moving
    force in all human history, as is who wins and who loses, who
    survives who perishes. Really it’s more the story of Life. Life
    goes on ….. for some; for others, not so much. Israel’s case is
    more compelling since they only want that which was given
    them by God, no more. Furthermore Israel was attacked in ’67,
    and ’73 by those who wished to take their land but it ended up
    that God saw to it that the aggressors instead had land they
    occupied rightfully stripped from their possession.”
    In my naivety, I would have thought that this position was so
    connected to social darwinism and the proponents of
    Lebensraum that you would feel very uncomfortable in that
    company. Evidently, you feel less comfortable with POA`s
    position Mexican truck drivers in California.
    Or more precisely: you don´t care, as long as you can have
    some juvenile fun with POA.
    I notice that even Sweetness and Questions are stunned or
    embarrassed by your recent ways of “having fun” at TWN.

    Reply

  17. WigWag says:

    Wow, Paul, it seems like I really hit a nerve! But thou I think doth protest too much!
    You may not think it’s reasonable to point out that people who are settlers themselves are not in a position to criticize other people who are settlers, but it seems perfectly reasonable to me. I don’t know if you have this expression in Norwegian, Paul, but in English the expression goes, “people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.”
    Is it really too much to ask that Californians who criticize the Israeli separation fence not to support building an analogous fence between the US and Mexico?
    Is it so outrageous to suggest that people, who support a two-people one state solution to the problems of Palestine, should also endorse allowing Mexican truckers to drive their rigs in the United States?
    And who is it that is really endorsing “racism and apartheid?” Is it me, or is it the people who think that Mexicans shouldn’t be free to work in the United States.
    Perhaps there is a logically consistent reason why it makes sense to be vitriolically opposed to the behavior of the Israeli settlers while maintaining that Mexican workers should be excluded from the United States. But if there is, no one has voiced that reason yet.
    And as for whether Scandinavians drink Starbucks or drive Priuses, I plead ignorance. I’ve never been to Scandinavia except for a brief visit to Copenhagen and Aarhus about 20 years ago. So I will have to rely on you for information on the coffee drinking habits of Scandinavians.

    Reply

  18. Paul Norheim says:

    “Gads, Wigwag is really makin’ an ass of himself this go-round,
    isn’t he?” (POA)
    Yeah, she`s made her position regarding the Israel/Palestine
    conflict crystal clear on this thread. Look at the Scandinavian
    vikings and what they did 1000 years ago (to WigWag, a
    Scandinavian obviously is the moral equivalent of those who
    frequently order a latte at Starbuck or drive a Prius; the creative
    class of the planet). Look at what USA did to the Mexicans and
    their land 120 years ago. You folks living in California are
    settlers too. In fact, who isn`t a settler?
    So shut the fuck up about how the Israelis treat the
    Palestinians!
    If history is the last and best argument, preventing us from
    moral or political positions going against what “history teach
    us”, you may as well extend this argument to genocide and
    racism:
    “Darfur?
    Why don`t you shut up and look at what the Hutus did to the
    Tutsis in Rwanda, the Germans to the Jews, The Turks to the
    Armenians, the white Americans to the Indians…”
    “Apartheid? Racism? This is happening all the time. Look at the
    white South Africans until recently, look at slavery in American
    history, in Arab history etc. etc…”
    “Study history and stop being a moralistic hypocrite. Especially
    if you`re from Europe (remember colonialism, all the wars?)”
    But for WigWag there seem to be ONE BIG EXCEPTION to this,
    and that is the fictive “sexism” of Barack Obama. On this point,
    “history” doesn`t count, she is outraged beyond all proportions,
    directing and concentrating 99 % of her moralistic impulses
    against one single individual on the planet.
    I don`t know what comes first here: her moral or her
    intellectual bankruptcy – but the result is the same. Sweetness
    said somewhere above that WigWag is playing a “dangerous
    game”. I would say she`s playing a silly and infantile game. And
    that`s sad, because she has great knowledge, and shows
    considerable political insight when not painting herself into a
    corner or producing juvenile arguments just to tease some of
    her opponents at TWN. Hollow and immature provocations…
    What a waste of energy!

    Reply

  19. Sweetness says:

    Dear Wig,
    Some thoughts on your previous posts, interpolated:
    “Americans do the same. Isn’t it that God told Americans it was
    their duty to sweep across their continent and prosper on lands
    occupied by heathen savages? All peoples do it, and its best to
    ensure that if there is any doing to be done that you are the
    doer, than the done in.”
    S: Yes, but we’re trying to do better, yes? Or is there no
    progress?
    Unfortunately history has proven that Hal’chem is right about
    this. Manifest Destiny, which was the ideology that justified the
    United States domination of the entire North American continent,
    was, at its core, a religious ideology. And the Mexican American
    War that confirmed American dominance in what is now the
    American Southwest and California was seen as part and parcel
    of Manifest Destiny.
    S: No arguing about the history, but shouldn’t we try to do
    better as we go along?
    The United States incorporated the southwestern states and
    California into the Union because the leaders who advocated
    doing so thought that they had God’s sanction.
    S: Yes.
    If you live in Arizona or New Mexico or Nevada or Texas or
    California you are in precisely the same position as Israeli
    settlers on the West Bank. The only real difference is that the
    United States conquered the land it took from Mexico in the
    1850s and Israel conquered the land that was then controlled by
    Jordan in 1967.
    S: Ethically, yes. But I think we want to say that time and
    changes in understanding do matter. The rabbis (some) would
    say that everything they deduce in the Talmud IS in the Torah.
    From God, IOW. However, it’s also clear that over the centuries
    they’ve refined their understanding of God’s word. There’s been
    progress. Even the Orthodox don’t do everything exactly as it’s
    written out in the Torah, yes? There’s a progressive
    understanding of God’s word. The Word is reveal within history.
    S: So, for example, we wouldn’t want anyone carrying on a slave
    trade and justifying it by pointing to North Carolina and what
    they did in the past. Would we?
    The parallel isn’t perfect. The United States incorporated the
    residents of those territories and gave them full voting rights
    and other rights of citizenship (except Native Americans, Blacks
    and women). The Israelis haven’t done that and won’t. This is
    why they need to relinquish the territory that they conquered.
    S: Yes. If peace every comes, I think the place will end up sort
    of like Belgium or Switzerland, more than likely. Still not a
    perfect situation, but a little bit better than what we have now.
    It’s worth pointing out that it’s taken the United States
    something like 400 years to “incorporate” the various groups
    that have huddled under its umbrella. It’s still a HUGE deal that
    an African American has won a major party’s nomination. Or
    that a woman came close. Every president, except Kennedy, has
    been a WASP. So how diverse are we, really? When folks say
    they “don’t know Obama yet”–this after 19 months of non-stop
    exposure–rallies that looked like rock concerts–universal web
    access–more debates than ever before in history–aren’t they
    really saying they don’t know “the other” yet? This strange guy
    whose life is bifurcated by the color line?
    Carroll made reference to the melting pot some threads ago.
    What’s odd is that as we’ve achieved greater social progress, the
    melting pot ideal has waned in significance and in people’s
    aspirations. My grandparents wanted NOTHING more than to be
    100% American. They and their friends made a POINT of NOT
    teaching their kids Hungarian. More recent immigrants hang on
    to their language and their ties to “their country” even as they
    scramble for a green card or citizenship. They travel “back
    home” often. They send money back home. Maybe it’s because
    the world is getting smaller and everywhere else is improving
    relative to life in the US.
    The United States was able to integrate the people living in those
    territories into its polity because the American political vision is
    almost unique in the world. If you don’t believe it, think about
    the seamless way that people of Jewish, Italian, Irish and Arab
    decent joined the American melting pot at precisely the time
    that Europeans were sorting their continent based on language
    and ethnicity and butchering themselves in the process. To this
    day, the United States is the only example of a successful
    multiethnic, multireligious, multicultural, multilingual country in
    the world. The only other country that even comes close is India
    (Switzerland is different). Compare the way Arab Americans are
    integrated into American society with the way they are
    integrated into French Society or English society or now Swedish
    society and you’ll know what I mean.
    S: Yes. I think those societies SORT of aspire to the American
    ideal, but they fall far short of it.
    But it’s success at integrating the Southwest and California into
    the United States doesn’t mean that the US didn’t steal that
    territory by force. It did. And it discriminates against people who
    have a right to that land every bit as much as the people living
    there.
    S: Yes. But I do think (again) there’s a time factor. If Israel were
    a lot older, then presumably she’d be in the same position as
    the US and Canada or Mexico or the Central and South American
    countries.
    The border fence needs to be torn down; the INS needs to be
    abolished; the detention facilities that house undocumented
    workers need to be destroyed and Mexican truck drivers need to
    be able to cruise American highways to their heart’s content.
    S: Presumably there are other solutions to illegal immigration
    than the border fence, effective or not. But I take your point.
    If you don’t agree, and you live in any of those states, you need
    to admit that you’re just like the Israeli settlers on the West
    Bank. You might be a little more secure and you might be a little
    richer, and you might be a little less religious; but you’re the
    same.
    S: Why stop with the Southwest? We’re ALL living on Native
    American land. Period. Were they ever compensated for it? No.
    Were the slaves and descendants of slaves ever compensated for
    the labor and lives stolen from them? No. But again, hopefully,
    we do better as we go along.
    And once you get that one figured out, you might also try to
    figure out why you think the Muslim Palestinians are entitled to
    their own country but the Muslim Kosovar Albanians are not. Or
    why the Slav South Ossetians or Abkazians are entitled to their
    own country but the Slav Bosnians who support Republik Srpska
    are not.
    S: These are good questions and Steve promised to answer
    them, but hasn’t as far as I know.
    It seems to me that just about the only people in the western
    world who get a pass on this are the Scandinavians. Of course,
    they’re not any more civilized. It’s just that their savagery and
    brutality exhausted itself a thousand years ago. They’ve already
    achieved their desired state of ethnic and racial homogeneity.
    Maybe Paul Norheim can comment about how racially, ethnically,
    linguistically and religiously Scandinavians really are.
    S: I do believe that the Norwegians have a BIG beef with the
    Swedes. Not sure about the Danes and the Finns. No one can
    understand the Finns, so maybe no one cares what they say.
    It seems to be that before getting too self righteous about other
    trouble spots in the world, that should give our Scandinavian
    friends a little pause.
    S: I think Kathleen said somewhere that all peoples have clay
    feet. And it’s incumbent on all peoples to get their ethical
    houses in order without justifying what they do by reference to
    the misdeeds of others. All that said, I do have sympathy for
    much of what you say. The demonization of Israel by many is
    odd and, if followed to its source, has hardly anything to do with
    the territories, but rather to the state’s very existence (at any
    size) and, for some, to the role of Jews in society period.

    Reply

  20. Kathleen says:

    Curt…that is a funny story..it’s very unusual for a candidate to go anywhere, unnanounced…they probably got a bit more careful about doing that…but Abe was not a stuffy guy…I liked him….
    digdug…very good points.

    Reply

  21. WigWag says:

    Sorry, Gunther, I admit it. Those Scandanavians are real bad asses!

    Reply

  22. Gunther says:

    WigWag !
    Those damnnit Scandinavian batards come deep down into Vaterland in 1630s in War of the 30 years to sacked, rapped, pillaged and plondered the whole way through and God told them they had his agreement. So you don’t give me any boolsheet on how Scandinavians got all pretty a 1000 years before, and they got knocked down for the atrocity 300 years after in 1940s. What comes round goes round, and round, and round, and pay back is to bitch!

    Reply

  23. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Gads, Wigwag is really makin’ an ass of himself this go-round, isn’t he?

    Reply

  24. digdug says:

    Name the last time a Republican President gave such a highly influential post to a liberal pol.
    This crap has to stop. There is nothing gained by rewarding Republicans (and especially ultra-conservative ones who enabled the many Bush/neocon failings like Hagel has) with influential posts like SoS.
    Absolutly nothing to be gained. All you do is reinforce the false meme that Democratic administrations somehow need Republicans in their administrations, but Republicans don’t need Democrats.
    “Bipartisanship” has never been a two-way street in Washington. It promotes and enables Republicans when Dems have power, but distinctly does NOT do this same in reverse when Repubs have power.
    Democrats, this year more than ever, need to promote from within their own ranks. Conservatives need to sit in the corner.

    Reply

  25. WigWag says:

    “Americans do the same. Isn’t it that God told Americans it was their duty to sweep across their continent and prosper on lands occupied by heathen savages? All peoples do it, and its best to ensure that if there is any doing to be done that you are the doer, than the done in.”
    Unfortunately history has proven that Hal’chem is right about this. Manifest Destiny, which was the ideology that justified the United States domination of the entire North American continent, was, at its core, a religious ideology. And the Mexican American War that confirmed American dominance in what is now the American Southwest and California was seen as part and parcel of Manifest Destiny.
    The United States incorporated the southwestern states and California into the Union because the leaders who advocated doing so thought that they had God’s sanction.
    If you live in Arizona or New Mexico or Nevada or Texas or California you are in precisely the same position as Israeli settlers on the West Bank. The only real difference is that the United States conquered the land it took from Mexico in the 1850s and Israel conquered the land that was then controlled by Jordan in 1967.
    The parallel isn’t perfect. The United States incorporated the residents of those territories and gave them full voting rights and other rights of citizenship (except Native Americans, Blacks and women). The Israelis haven’t done that and won’t. This is why they need to relinquish the territory that they conquered.
    The United States was able to integrate the people living in those territories into its polity because the American political vision is almost unique in the world. If you don’t believe it, think about the seamless way that people of Jewish, Italian, Irish and Arab decent joined the American melting pot at precisely the time that Europeans were sorting their continent based on language and ethnicity and butchering themselves in the process. To this day, the United States is the only example of a successful multiethnic, multireligious, multicultural, multilingual country in the world. The only other country that even comes close is India (Switzerland is different). Compare the way Arab Americans are integrated into American society with the way they are integrated into French Society or English society or now Swedish society and you’ll know what I mean.
    But it’s success at integrating the Southwest and California into the United States doesn’t mean that the US didn’t steal that territory by force. It did. And it discriminates against people who have a right to that land every bit as much as the people living there.
    The border fence needs to be torn down; the INS needs to be abolished; the detention facilities that house undocumented workers need to be destroyed and Mexican truck drivers need to be able to cruise American highways to their heart’s content.
    If you don’t agree, and you live in any of those states, you need to admit that you’re just like the Israeli settlers on the West Bank. You might be a little more secure and you might be a little richer, and you might be a little less religious; but you’re the same.
    And once you get that one figured out, you might also try to figure out why you think the Muslim Palestinians are entitled to their own country but the Muslim Kosovar Albanians are not. Or why the Slav South Ossetians or Abkazians are entitled to their own country but the Slav Bosnians who support Republik Srpska are not.
    It seems to me that just about the only people in the western world who get a pass on this are the Scandinavians. Of course, they’re not any more civilized. It’s just that their savagery and brutality exhausted itself a thousand years ago. They’ve already achieved their desired state of ethnic and racial homogeneity. Maybe Paul Norheim can comment about how racially, ethnically, linguistically and religiously Scandinavians really are.
    It seems to be that before getting too self righteous about other trouble spots in the world, that should give our Scandinavian friends a little pause.

    Reply

  26. Carroll says:

    Posted by hal’chem Aug 27, 10:48AM
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Well, you are well on your way to never again becoming Once Again.
    And btw, I checked all the revelant courthouses and that deed you claim God gave the Jews isn’t registered anywhere.
    So I had the leader of my own cult call God today and guess what?…God told him he didn’t give anyone deeds to any lands when he started his evolution machine and had lost touch with mankind anyway since they started claiming this sort of thing about him that he never did or said and putting him on TV to raise money and get votes. In fact he said he was so disgusted he was seriously thinking of canceling the whole earth thing experiment.

    Reply

  27. Curt says:

    Kathleen, I asked about him because he visited my family during his campaign for Governor in 1954 when we were living in a quonset hut outside Danbury where we were supposed to become some kind of campaign photo op, I guess.
    Nobody tells us he’s coming, and he pops in, my mother looking all disheveled in a house dress nursing my sister and Pop was there looking worse smoking his cigar stub, unshaven in his boxer shorts, and the seven of us kids all in various states of slovenliness because we were particularly poor in that period, Pop being only a day laborer.
    So here we all are looking at Ribicoff and he looking at our bedraggled selves dumbfounded on both sides, his entourage and our bunch. My mother bursts into tears because of the way she looks, Dottie, my baby sister is taken by Helen, another sister, and forgetting herself my mother goes up to Ribicoff not knowing her breast is still not properly covered and beckons him to sit and asks if he would like some water, it being a sweltering summer day.
    We had just finished some muffins to get something in our stomachs since we were taught that when times were tough it was best to sleep as long into the day as possible to make our first meal necessary in the afternoon, so we all had just gotten up.
    Anyway, my mother leads Ribicoff by the hand to the table we cobbled together and Pop sees that mother’s breast is out and she still does not realize it, so Pop goes over and puts the breast in her dress himself to the horror of all present.
    Pop was an odd duck as he always had to do something crude to get a laugh and usually the only laugh he got was his own, but this time when Pop “busted out” ,as he called it, at the scene he caused, Ribicoff went off too, and then every body started howling which broke the ice except for my mother who was howling in tears, again. Ribicoff sees this and tries to console her but can’t keep a straight face and “busts out” whereon my father then thinks Ribicoff is laughing at his wife and not his joke, so Pop like the king of his castle, points to the door and pompously tells Ribicoff to leave his wife and family alone, and everything freezes in tension, until Pop realizes the ridiculousness of his posturing dressed only in his boxers, and “busts out” again, doubling over in belly laughs, and everyone follows suit.
    Then one of Ribicoffs men whose look had quickly turned concerned came over to whisper in Ribicoff’s ear whereupon he stood up and bid us goodbye and good luck, and another guy handed out some campaign material. We never knew why he came to us except thinking he wanted to take some photos to show him caring about the less well off.
    Nothing of use came off with everything so disjointed, awkward, and out of sorts. A surreal quality that can never be forgotten, and a story that Pop told till his dying day.
    Oh, and why I put that -fellini ending on Mr. Ribicoff’s name is because a certain Frederico Fellini film, can’t remember which now off-hand, reminds me of complete absurdity of that scene that transpired in the sticks outside Danbury in the Summer of 1954.
    It was horribly funny, really, a scene where you could truly laugh or cry, if you were there. The most uncomfortable I have been in all my life and a situation where I wanted to get out of there as fast as possible, but could not because I was transfixed by the calamity.
    We were shaken as a family for many weeks to come, embarrassed for each other, with Pop trying to get some cheer back into us by throwing himself into antics that were of the same sort that got us into the withdrawn state in the first place.
    And then mother’s crying.
    What a time.

    Reply

  28. Kathleen says:

    Curt…yes it does…quite a bit…at the 1968 State convention in Hartford, I was floor manager of the Gene McCarthy delegates…to force John Bailey to give us some seats to the Chicago convention, I asked Joe Duffey, Ch of the CT. McCarthy Committee, if we could nominate him to challenge Abe Ribicoff to a primary for the nomination for US Seante….. they freaked and called a middle of the night meeting and gave us 9 seats to Chicago.. Abe gave up his own seat to make room for us…He went as an alternate…then in cooperation with teddy, he nominated george mc
    govern to keep Bobby’s delegates from going to McCarthy…which gave the nod to humphrey…then he also hired me to work on his 1968 re-election campagin… I was in charge of Farifield County, which he carried for the first time in his career and even ran ahead of Nixon…Lanny Davis was his AA at the time. Then when Joe Duffey ran for the US Senate in 1970, against Senator Tom Dodd, Abe and his staff worked with us on Duffey’s campaign, so I had access to info I needed for resaerch and position papers, through Ribicoff.
    Why do you ask… did you know Abe Ribicoff? His summer home in Neptune Park was just around the corner from my parents’ home in New London.. just noticed the ‘
    Ribicoffellini…I call Bush “Busholini”…

    Reply

  29. Paul Norheim says:

    brilliant, hal’chem,
    & thanks for translating WigWags comments to plain english!

    Reply

  30. hal'chem says:

    Seeking more living space for your people is a prime moving force in all human history, as is who wins and who loses, who survives who perishes. Really it’s more the story of Life. Life goes on ….. for some; for others, not so much. Israel’s case is more compelling since they only want that which was given them by God, no more. Furthermore Israel was attacked in ’67, and ’73 by those who wished to take their land but it ended up that God saw to it that the aggressors instead had land they occupied rightfully stripped from their possession.
    Americans do the same. Isn’t it that God told Americans it was their duty to sweep across their continent and prosper on lands occupied by heathen savages. All peoples do it, and its best to ensure that if there is any doing to be done that you are the doer, than the done in.

    Reply

  31. Paul Norheim says:

    hal’chem,
    any comment to the German word “Lebensraum” in the theory of
    geopolitics? Business as usual?
    BTW WigWag, you`ve had some juvenile fun recently, and now it
    seems like you`re getting the fans you deserve.

    Reply

  32. Curt says:

    Kathleen, does your storied past have any about Sen. Abraham Ribicoffellini that are suitable for this forum?

    Reply

  33. Kathleen says:

    EliRabett…Hagel can’t deliver Iowa for BO because he’s from Nebraska…Carroll, I went to live in Italy when Nixon was elected… I returned when he resigned…

    Reply

  34. hal'chem says:

    Land stole by winning a war
    Most borders on the world map exist directly from some Peoples winning a war. A People do not “steal” land by winning a war; it is more than likely that land is what the war was all about in the first place, and fully understood by the warring parties that whoever won got the land in question.
    Nobody “steals” land by winning a war. Land is the just reward for winning a war. If you want someone else’s land you go to war for it and take it if you can. It’s a necessary eternal human pursuit.
    Rich – “genocide” is way too harsh a term for occupying your land given to you by God and displacing those who are using your land against God’s expressed will. You forget that the Canaanites, Moabites, Philistines, etc., all needed to be defeated and sent on their way to secure the land given the Israelites by God and it is the same then as it is now, but we are much more civil about the process which surely cannot be rightly describe as “genocide.”
    You seem to be a soft man not wanting to acknowledge the ways of the world which will only lead to the extinction of your seed. Passing passivity along to your children will do them great harm. This lesson was taught to our horror in the 1930s and ’40s. Never Again.

    Reply

  35. Carroll says:

    Wig wag has a great argument. By the standard above we should make sure Palestines can drive on the Jews only roads in Israel, Palestines should be able to vote in Israeli elections, Israel should be a Hebrew-Arabic langauge state and any jews who violate it should be subject to criminal sanctions and the Palestines should be able to work on the land Israel stole from them.
    I’ll vote for that.
    Or we could just settle the whole issue, deport all Jews to the Jewish state, all Muslims to Muslim states, all hispanics to hispanic states, all Europeans back to Europeans states and give the US back to the Indians.
    How would that work for ya? You’d get to live in Israel. Why aren’t you living there btw?
    I would have no problem going back to England or Scotland. And the cherry on top is it would solve the rest of the world’s problem with the Jews and the US.

    Reply

  36. Kathleen says:

    rich…we don’t try our best to correct past injustices to Native Americans at all. we continue to commit them today, as we speak…I am an “informed party” on several CT.tribal petitions for Federal acknowledgment and I am truly ashamed of what our gov’t does, routinely…cheating, lying, witholding documents…it’s an ongoing travesty….
    Carter wass invited to the convention and chose to do a video on New Orleans…this is what he said on CNN this a.m.

    Reply

  37. rich says:

    Big difference between ‘engaging’ and ‘putting a quick end to.’ Close observers easily differentiate between lengthy disquisitions and the quick flick of a wrist.

    Reply

  38. WigWag says:

    To Rich:
    “The argument is so absurd it’s not worth engaging.”
    Then why did you write a whole comment engaging it? I guess you do think it was worth engaging.
    “There’s no hypocrisy in play when we all know both settlers were/are in the wrong.”
    Sorry, Rich, there is “hypocrisy in play” if you only want to redress one of the wrongs (that would be the one that doesn’t affect you) but not redress the other (that would be the one that does affect you.)
    Just like you think that there are things that can be done now to redress what you consider the historic wrongs done to the Palestinians, there are things that can be done now to redress the wrongs that were done to the Mexicans.
    You don’t like the Israeli separation fence; you could advocate that the fence the US is building be stopped. After all, the world is outraged that part of the Israeli fence is being built on land that the Israelis stole by winning a war. But of course, the entire US separation fence is on property that the US stole by winning a war.
    You could let all Mexicans who want to come to the United State to work, come here with minimal hassle. After all the land that they want to work on was “stolen” from them only about 96 years before you think Israel “stole” the Palestinians land.
    You could officially make California and the Southwestern United States bilingual territory and legally require that all public signs, bill boards, etc be printed in English and Spanish. Proprietors who violated this requirement would be subject to criminal sanctions. This wouldn’t be unprecedented. After all, at one time this was the law in the Province of Quebec which required English and French signage.
    One thing that might be worth trying would be allowing Mexicans to vote in either Mexico or the United States at their discretion.
    If you wanted to get really daring you could try a one state two people approach for the American Southwest and California.
    But if that’s too much for you, you could at least let their truckers drive here unmolested.

    Reply

  39. rich says:

    You’re putting me on.
    On both counts.
    That’s the kind of attitude that will be responsible for erasing Israel from the face of the map or Armageddon, whichever comes first. Not Iran, and not anyone else.
    ‘God told me to commit genocide?’ That’s your argument? I guess that speaks for itself. Too bad really, since Israel had everything it asked for, or needed, post-WWII

    Reply

  40. hal'chem says:

    I think we are all forgetting that it was GOD who gave the Israelites the lands of Judea, and the Jewish people are merely trying to reclaim their rightful ownership to the lands originally given them by God. This cannot be very hard to understand.
    And as for Mexicans, there are no sacred texts that impart that God gave them anything ever. They are a nomadic people, and should be understood and accommodated as such.

    Reply

  41. rich says:

    Past injustice does not make current injustice somehow ok.
    A current policy of apartheid, land grabs, and ethnic cleansing is not somehow made legitimate by the historic fact of land grabs and ethnic cleansing carried out by another country.
    American slavery and the denial of Creator-endowed civil rights cannot be used to justify Israel’s ethnicity-based denial of economic opportunity and those same Creator-endowed, inalienable human rights.
    The argument is so absurd it’s not worth engaging. There’s no hypocrisy in play when we all know both settlers were/are in the wrong. Difference is, do we overlook the settlers currently committing those sins? Their actions actively endanger Israeli security and American national security. Their radical dogma completely discredits American and Israeli state and individual standing—and both words and deeds are assuredly anti-Jewish and anti-Christian in nature. We all know there’s a difference between loving your neighbor and killing them. It’s plain you can’t deny jobs, travel, land, voting—basic freedom, and still lay claim to moral standing, a functional democracy, or the land you stand on. America made those mistakes. But we correct them as best we can.
    Get real.

    Reply

  42. WigWag says:

    Sorry Tony, Mexico did not steal any property from the United States, the United States stole the Southwest and California (that’s POA’s home)from Mexico.
    Don’t you think that the Mexicans have a little more right to drive in what was once their property before it was stolen, then our truck drivers have a right to drive in property that never belonged to the US?
    By the way, the folks in the Southwest and California are occupying land that was stolen quite recently. It wasn’t thousands of years ago, it was about 120 years ago.
    The people living in the Southwest and California are basically settlers. And now, we’re actually buidling a separation wall between the US and Mexico.
    In light of what we’ve done to them, don’t you think assholes like POA could give their truck drivers a break?

    Reply

  43. PissedOffAmerican says:

    I see this WigWag asshole is working on destroying yet one more thread.

    Reply

  44. TonyForesta says:

    While wasting time off topic, do American truckers get to drive in Mexico? I do not know the answer, but if they do, then what is fair is fair, – if not why should Mexican truckers have rights that are denied American truckers?

    Reply

  45. WigWag says:

    Not Drunk Yet, if you are a Native American you are not a squatter. If you are not, regardless of your heritage you are living on land stolen first from Native Americans and then from Mexico.
    Is it so much to ask that you allow their truckers to drive here?
    I have traveled in the Southwest and California but only as a tourist.

    Reply

  46. Not Drunk Yet says:

    Wig, it depends on what you define as “Mexicans” — I would
    venture to guess that you’ve never been to the Southwest.
    There are Hispanics, all mixed with Native Americans, who have
    never left the Southwest, whether it “belonged” to the U.S. or to
    Mexico.
    There are Native Americans who came here thousands of years
    ago, and were the original inhabiters of the land, who have
    never intermarried with the Spanish Conquistadores (invaders).
    They still live on the land in the Southwest that you claim
    belongs to Mexico.
    The Native Americans have their nations and tribal lands within
    the U.S. In Arizona alone, there is the Navajo Nation, the Hopi
    Nation, the Tohono O’Odham tribe, the San Carlos Apaches, the
    White Mountain Apaches, the Havasupais, etc.
    It appears that you believe that Mexicans, whose ancestors just
    transited through these lands millennia ago, have more right to
    it than Native Americans who never left.
    That alone would out you as someone incapable of critical
    thinking.
    But let me ask this question to Wig Wag and all who support
    illegal immigration: if the Mexican illegal immigrants and their
    fellow travelers in the “Reconquista” movement succeed in
    annexing the U.S Southwest to Mexico then what would have
    been their point in fleeing Mexico in the first place? To bring
    the Mexican government’s corruption up here? Where would
    they flee next? Canada ends below the Arctic.
    Mexico needs to deal with her own problems, just like we need
    to deal with ours. We have enough problems, we don’t need
    Mexico’s.

    Reply

  47. Eli Rabett says:

    Let Hagel deliver Iowa to Obama and then they can talk about a position in the Obama administration. Help in MO would also be welcome

    Reply

  48. WigWag says:

    Not Drunk Yet, don’t you think that because you are living on land that was only recently stolen from the Mexicans that you should at least have the decency to let their truck drivers operate here?
    As far as the Jews and trucks thing; yeah, you got me. I don’t have a leg to stand on. I think I’ll go get drunk.

    Reply

  49. Not Drunk Yet says:

    I’m quoting Wig Wag here — “I don’t think Jews drive trucks”
    Wig — do you want it both ways? Why don’t you clarify your statement? I’m asking you Wig, are Jews just average mensches – not elite – doing the same jobs as illegal immigrants, like driving trucks?
    Or are Jews an elite, who would never deign to put the pedal to the metal to do anything so lowly as transport food across America?
    You can’t have it both ways Wig.
    Tell us, are blue collar jobs beneath your idea of work befitting Jews? And I stress that it’s WIG’s idea that are jobs that some jobs are beneath Jews, but not all Jews are like Wig.
    Wig, you rail against all of us in the border states, who are against illegal immigration because of the very real effect it has on our pocketbooks and the safety of our roads, and yet you make the MOTHER of all elitist statements, “I don’t think Jews drive trucks.”
    Wig, in order to get a driver’s license I have to take a test, Mexican truck drivers in trucks that are not certified to be on American roads do not.
    I cannot emigrate to Mexico, despite my money, education and work history.
    I would have to suggest that Wig Wag is a propagandist for Israel and the McCain campaign.
    I’m sick of both.

    Reply

  50. TonyForesta says:

    All the haters, know not what they seek. Supporting McCain because you don’t like Obama is suicidal. McCain is an appeaser and enabler of the fascist policies of the Bush government, and would perpetuate the exact same policies at home and abroad that have brought America to the brink of economic calamity, to systemic lawlessness at the highest levels of the government, to the rape and dismemberment of the Constitution, and to certain neverendingwar. If this is what you want, then vote for McCain, but stop pretending that you are being reasonable by sliming Obama and hurling unsusbtantiated Zionest nonsense about why Carter did not speak, or Biden’s wife. Your racist speculations are as idiotic and patently false as the slime the wingnuts are pimping about Obama being a muslim, or unpatriotic. Any time any fool besmearches any American as unpatriotic simply for holding a different position – is proof positive to me, that the accuser is not only ignorant, but fascists. The fascists are ruling America, and their pernicious and repugnant bile is bleeding into the mainstream and becoming acceptable.
    We either change and completely, or we don’t. If we don’t, America is doomed.

    Reply

  51. Sweetness says:

    “JACOBS, as the insinuation is around here, is not necessarily a
    Jewish name.”
    Right. And right to the rest of your post.
    I once mentored a young African-American boy named Jacobs.
    Yes; both parents were black and from South Carolina.

    Reply

  52. WigWag says:

    “WigWag is a PUMA supporter whose aim is to destroy Obama’s candidacy. What may look like danger to you looks like success to her.”
    Dan Kervick, I think Sweetness was a little more astute about “my little game” than you were. But it was still dumb on my part.
    As for destroying Obama’s candidacy, I keep telling you, I can’t destroy anything (except the omelet I tried to make myself for lunch.)
    If Obama loses it will be because he destroyed his own candidacy. And if he wins, it will be because he adopted a winning strategy.
    Dan Kervick, WigWag, Sweetness, Steve Clemons, etc have nothing to do with it.

    Reply

  53. WigWag says:

    “Wig, you’re playing a dangerous game.”
    You’re right. And a juvenile one too.
    Sorry

    Reply

  54. carsick says:

    Hey, cool. Commenters are trying to sniff out “the Jews”. Maybe they’ll be looking for half-bloods next. Perhaps Obama and Biden’s shared Irish blood is something they should be looking at as well though I think Obama’s may be Protestant Irish blood and Biden’s is Catholic.

    Reply

  55. aaron says:

    Hold it with this JACOBS business
    JACOBS, as the insinuation is around here, is not necessarily a Jewish name.
    Mike Jacobs, when he was a player for the New York Mets, was repeatedly asked by people is New York if he was Jewish, and he said, “No.”
    I know of people who live in NY whose name is Abrams and they are not Jewish.
    So having the surname JACOBS does not necessarily insinuate the that bearer Jewish.
    And who cares anyway unless you are after an anti-Semitic cheap schmear.
    And furthermore if she is Jewish and supports Israel, good for her, what do you expect.
    And any inside knowledge about how Carter got back-shelfed through Biden and his wife are horseshit (correct terminology POA?)
    And all you all are doing dealing with any of this is Jew-baiting.
    So STFU.

    Reply

  56. Dan Kervick says:

    Sweetness,
    WigWag is a PUMA supporter whose aim is to destroy Obama’s candidacy. What may look like danger to you looks like success to her.

    Reply

  57. Sweetness says:

    Wigwag writes: “We’re Screwed, don’t forget that the one guy with
    the guts to tell it like it is, Jimmy Carter, was denied an opportunity
    to speak at the Democratic Convention last night. Can you believe
    it? He pens an opus like “Peace Not Apartheid.” He goes on Meet
    the Press and calls the Zionists out, he’s one of only two living
    Democratic Presidents, and Obama didn’t let him speak. Geez,
    we’re screwed!”
    Wig, you’re playing a dangerous game.

    Reply

  58. Mr.Murder says:

    Joe Biden channeling Condi Rice. Barack voted affirmatively for both of them….

    Reply

  59. Carroll says:

    Everyone who follows politics knows why Carter wasn’t invited to the Dem convention. After all, when Carter’s book came out he was called an anti-semite by all the dem jewish congressmen and Carter was dennonced by Pelosi.
    Meanwhile the dem jews paint the repub as anti jews/Israel and the repubs paint the dems as anti jews.
    RJC:
    Don’t let Carter speak in Denver (UPDATED)
    By Eric Fingerhut on Aug 20, 2008 in Democratic convention, Featured, Jimmy Carter | ShareThis
    A day after the Democrats announced that former President Jimmy Carter would be speaking next Monday at their convention, the Republican Jewish Coalition is demanding his removal from the schedule because of his “troubling anti-Israel bias.” Carter spoke at the convention four years ago, but that was before the 2006 release of his controversial book, “Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid.”
    A top Jewish leader, though, believes a Carter speech in Denver is unavoidable. Anti-Defamation League national director Abraham Foxman said in a phone interview that he wished Carter wasn’t speaking, but “I don’t think there’s an option not to provide a platform for a former president.” He hoped the “Democratic leadership would use the opportunity [of Carter’s appearance] to distance themselves” from the former president’s “biased view of the Arab-Israeli conflict.”
    Here’s the full RJC release:
    RJC: Remove Carter From Democratic Convention Program
    Washington, D.C. (August 20, 2008) — The Republican Jewish Coalition (RJC) today
    called on Sen. Barack Obama and the Democratic Party leadership to remove former
    President Jimmy Carter from the program at the Democratic National Convention. Yesterday it was announced that Carter is scheduled to speak at the Convention in Denver on Monday, August 25, 2008.
    Through the years, President Carter has consistently demonstrated by his statements
    and actions a troubling anti-Israel bias. In April 2008, despite strong protests by Israeli leaders, the U.S. State Department and several Democratic leaders, Carter met with Hamas leader Khaled Meshal in Syria. In an August 2006 interview with Der Spiegel, Carter ignored Israel’s right to defend its citizens and borders. Instead, Carter claimed Israel’s attack was “unjustified” and that “Israel looks upon this as a justification for an attack on the civilian population of Lebanon and Gaza.” In 2006, Carter also published an error-filled, egregiously biased book entitled Palestine: Peace not Apartheid. Carter said publicly that Israeli treatment of Palestinians is “one of the greatest human rights crimes
    on earth.”
    “Jimmy Carter’s long history of anti-Israel bias has rendered him unfit to address
    the Democratic Convention. It is incumbent upon the Democratic Party leadership
    and Senator Obama to remove Carter from the program in Denver. The Democratic
    Party and Senator Obama’s continued embrace of Carter and his anti-Israel bias sends
    a troubling message to the Jewish community. It stands in stark contrast to the
    GOP and John McCain’s pro-Israel stance,” said RJC Executive Director Matt Brooks.
    “Additionally, Senator Obama should reject Carter’s superdelegate vote. The hand
    that shook Khaled Meshal’s should not be allowed to rise in support of Senator Obama’s
    candidacy for president.”
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    The whole jews/Israel vr. Americans thing is cruising for a eventual bruising. Sooner or later it will snap. Despite everything the US public has told politicans about our foreign issues both parties continue pell mell down the opposite path.

    Reply

  60. PeterG says:

    Carter was not physical absent from the convention. Both he and Rosylyn were there in person, on stage, in front of the cheering crowd, with the band playing ‘Georgia on my mind’. His comments were on a presented video prior to the Carters’ appearance. But I think the Jewish lobby in the US is so strong that Carter’s past truthful comments about Israel (saying that Israel is going overboard to protect their country and, in effect, acting as terrorists against the Palestians) forces Carter to be low-keyed in this convention.

    Reply

  61. Dan Kervick says:

    WorkerBee wrote,
    “I believe that Carter’s physical absence was a condition for Zionist Biden accepting the VP slot which was probably insisted upon by his wife Jill Tracy JACOBS.”
    WorkerBee, do you have any evidence at all for this belief, or is it just the product of your imagination.

    Reply

  62. Carroll says:

    Biden has the same temper problem as McCain.
    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2008/08/biden-is-a-figh.html
    Biden is a fighter, and a screamer.
    snips……..
    I believe that it was in ’95 or ’96 that I took a consulting client to meet Biden on the basis of an acquaintance I had with one of his staffers. The client did not want anything from Biden. He was one of those people who feel better about themselves if they can say that they know the famous. He was a name dropper. He was an Arab. We were sitting in Biden’s office with a couple of staffers having a meaningless “small talk” session when Senator Joe arrived. After a minute or so Biden asked this man what he thought of the situation in the Middle East. My client said the appropriate thing for a typical “grip and grin” meeting. He expressed a modest hope for peace in the region. He was not a Palestinian and this was of fairly distant import for him, but, it was to be said.
    Biden’s face turned red and he started shouting that the two of us knew there was no real chance of peace in the Middle East and that if we continued to “lie” to him we could get out of his office. He went on like that for some time.
    His diatribe actually became MORE violent and offensive as he continued for several minutes. He did not seem to realize that this poor fellow in an Armani suit was an industrialist and not responsible for the eternal catastrophe between Israel and the Arabs. He started screaming at me as well, saying that it was the responsibility of people like me to make the world a better place.
    ‘I would have told him to “stick it where the sun don’t shine” and left but the Arab gentleman sat through it and so I had little choice but to do the same.
    I am not sure what I was watching there. My impression was that I was seeing someone overly influenced by his staffers and who could not have been described as a great thinker.
    His outburst was definitely anti-Arab and and anti-Arabist.
    Col Pat Lang
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Had it been me I would have slapped s*** out of the blowhard prima donna. That’s the great thing about not being in or around politics, you can do and say whatever you please. I doubt Biden is such a great debater with someone who doesn’t have to play the politican game. That’s why candidates never ever take questions from an audience that haven’t been vetted beforehand.
    On the rare occasions when someone slipped in a real challange or question at some gathering the politican always loses it and makes a fool of himself.

    Reply

  63. WigWag says:

    NIMBY, Mexicans and even more Jews living in California, what will POA do? That just wouldn’t be right. But at least POA will have one thing going for him. I don’t think too many of those Jews drive trucks. He has a thing about truck drivers you know.
    Worker Bee. Thanks so much for the link. I looked at it. Your right! Worker Bee, you cut me to the quick!
    One of the resons I like to come to the Washington Note is that things get sleuthed out so fast around here. Thanks again, for your great work, Worker Bee.

    Reply

  64. worker bee says:

    WigWag, just Goggle Jill Tracy JACOBS, 12,600 hits; but to make it simple:
    http://marriage.about.com/od/politics/p/joebiden.htm

    Reply

  65. DonS says:

    “New cold war?”
    I know, I am a pessimist when it comes to the establishment of an American foreign policy that even vaguely resembles an honest appraisal of the facts. Still I’m going to take another flyer and link to this story that highlights some of the depressing issues.
    It’s almost like someone pulled the lever and decided, yup, this is the way its gonna be; bashing Russia will be the order of the day. Since the US is losing its moral authority daily, the only way to prop it up is to, well, prop it up with a new story line to feed the sheople.
    It’s got to be a doozy of a story for the sheople to buy in just now, on top of the war weariness from Iraq. But, as we know, America, the white knight, defender of the free world sells, and really seems to be the level of intelligence that is expected from the media types. The old story: foreign policy as soap opera.
    The media love it, the sheople love it, and politicians can’t trip over each other fast enough to second it. So alongside the pantheon of political paens (tough on crime, tough on terrorism, etc.) now comes “tough on Russia”. Surrogates for real thought and analysis.
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9933

    Reply

  66. NIMBY says:

    Look, you guys, in order to get elected to anything in this country one must say that the USA is committed to defending Israel and its capital Jerusalem at all costs. That is political reality. It does not mean they have to follow through when the time comes. They just have to say it. And when the time comes, they will put their political finger up to see which way the political winds are blowing and decide according to what is in THEIR best political interest. And if Israel must be sacrificed to keep political power here, Israel will be sacrificed and we will take in the refugees and settled them around where POA lives in California to balance out his Mexican problem.

    Reply

  67. WigWag says:

    worker bee, her name isn’t really Jill Tracy JACOBS. That can’t be. You’ve got to be mistaken. Do you have a legitimate source for this?

    Reply

  68. worker bee says:

    I did notice that WigWag. The Dems kept Republican whipping boy Carter at home probably as punishment and to mute murmurs about the anti-Zionist stance he took in his last book. I believe that Carter’s physical absence was a condition for Zionist Biden accepting the VP slot which was probably insisted upon by his wife Jill Tracy JACOBS.

    Reply

  69. WigWag says:

    We’re Screwed, don’t forget that the one guy with the guts to tell it like it is, Jimmy Carter, was denied an opportunity to speak at the Democratic Convention last night.
    Can you believe it? He pens an opus like “Peace Not Apartheid.” He goes on Meet the Press and calls the Zionists out, he’s one of only two living Democratic Presidents, and Obama didn’t let him speak.
    Geez, we’re screwed!

    Reply

  70. We're Screwed says:

    VIDEO of Biden saying, “I Am A Zionist.”
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20615.htm
    Biden’s, “Ich bin ein Berliner.” moment? I doubt it given that
    almost every single member of congress is a whore for the Israel
    lobby, and Israel is no friend to the U.S. Whereas the U.S. and
    Germany have not gone head-to-head in how many decades?
    According to Steve, Biden talks the good talk about Iran, but
    that’s in direct contradiction to his, “I am a Zionist.” speech.
    And talk is cheap. Biden’s just looking to placate the Obama
    antiwar base, which feels betrayed. Biden’s a neo-con lite.
    We know that we are truly screwed when an influential politician,
    Joe Biden, who is now a vice-presidential candidate, pledges his
    allegiance to an apartheid, terrorist regime, Israel, whose lobby
    has lied us into Iraq and now wants to lie us into Iran. And uses
    our tax dollars to attack her neighbors leading to endless
    hostility directed towards us.
    When will we learn that neither major party is working in our
    best interests? Obviously never. Hospitals, schools, new roads,
    repaired roads? They don’t concern our politicians who are only
    concerned with consolidating their power, and the only way to
    do that is to kow-tow to the Israel lobby while they push
    America into her doom.

    Reply

  71. DannyS says:

    POA,
    Thanks for bringing back the particular rage I had against Biden back in early 2003. Slimy evil bastard.
    The stupid asses are going to get us out of Iraq so we can get our heads handed to us in Afghanistan.
    These evil machinations are what a country gets when politicians, to keep their personal political power, cater to hyper-nationalistic, crazed flag waving patriot, support the troops, jingoist populace believing truly they are the God given Greatest Country In The World; a fervor that the politicians have created in an ever increasing escalation over the years just to gain and retain power.
    An ignorant People such as these are invariably destroyed.
    Beforeth the Fall goeth Pride
    We are spiraling down a vicious circle that cannot be escaped.
    If I was religious I would see The Devil himself at the controls laughing maniacally.

    Reply

  72. PissedOffAmerican says:

    It appears Bush/Cheney aren’t the only ones with a hard-on for a new cold war. It appears Biden is already lying to us, even before moving his hair brush into the White House guest bath.
    Russia invaded Georgia? Really Joe, is that what happened?
    I’m supposed to participate in putting these pieces of shit in the Oval Orifice? McCain? Romney? Obama? Biden.
    No way in hell.
    Joe Biden on Georgia/Ossetia/Russia…..
    “‘I left the country convinced that Russia’s invasion of Georgia may be the one of the most significant event to occur in Europe since the end of communism. The claims of Georgian atrocities that provided the pretext for Russia’s invasion are rapidly being disproved by international observers, and the continuing presence of Russian forces in the country has severe implications for the broader region. The war that began in Georgia is no longer about that country alone. It has become a question of whether and how the West will stand up for the rights of free people throughout the region.'”

    Reply

  73. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Ho hum. Biden’s statements during the run-up to the illegal invasion of Iraq demonstrate clearly why these spineless fucking cowards on the left are loathe to seek accountability for Bush’s crimes.
    Another excerpt….
    Said Biden, “One thing is clear: These weapons must be dislodged from Saddam, or Saddam must be dislodged from power.” He did not believe proof of the existence of any actual weapons to dislodge was necessary, however, insisting that “If we wait for the danger from Saddam to become clear, it could be too late.” He further defended President Bush by falsely claiming that “He did not snub the UN or our allies. He did not dismiss a new inspection regime. He did not ignore the Congress. At each pivotal moment, he has chosen a course of moderation and deliberation.”

    Reply

  74. PissedOffAmerican says:

    http://www.antiwar.com/zunes/?articleid=13361
    An excerpt….
    As Scott Ritter, the former chief UN weapons inspector, noted at the time, “For Sen. Biden’s Iraq hearings to be anything more than a political sham used to invoke a modern-day Gulf of Tonkin resolution-equivalent for Iraq, his committee will need to ask hard questions – and demand hard facts – concerning the real nature of the weapons threat posed by Iraq.”
    It soon became apparent that Biden had no intention of doing so. Biden refused to even allow Ritter himself – who knew more about Iraq’s WMD capabilities than anyone and would have testified that Iraq had achieved at least qualitative disarmament – to testify. Ironically, on Meet the Press last year, Biden defended his false claims about Iraqi WMDs by insisting that “everyone in the world thought he had them. The weapons inspectors said he had them.”

    Reply

  75. Sweetness says:

    Gwen writes: “All WigWag is saying is that Obama is not
    God/Messiah only a regular human being who happens to be
    the best choice for President that we have. Obama is imperfect,
    but McCain is more so. We have to overcome the blemishes, hold
    our noses and vote for Obama to have any chance to getting
    ourselves out of the fine mess we have gotten ourselves into
    with Bush.”
    Gwen, I’m not at all a Wigwag hater, as some here are, but this in
    no way characterizes Wig’s views, at least as I read them. He
    does NOT believe that Obama is the “best choice for President
    that we have.” Arguably, he believes that McCain is a better
    choice, though is quick to point out how terrible this “better
    choice” is. Moreover, I don’t think he’s ever said anything that
    could even remotely be construed as urging others to vote for
    Obama while holding any part of their bodies. He’s against
    Obama, plain and simple, and has made that abundantly clear.
    Where that leaves him in terms of voting–given that I assume
    he’s an ardent Democrat–is hard to say. I can’t see him voting
    for Nader or Barr. He might sit out, but that would be a vote for
    McCain by default. So Wig is in a tough position unless he
    convinces himself that politics is just a bunch of BS and his vote
    doesn’t count anyway. Hard for a Floridian to pull that off, tho.
    That said–and apart from this issue, and even including this
    issue sometimes–Wig brings up good points from time to time.
    So I would commend your commendation of him in general
    terms.

    Reply

  76. PeterG says:

    Biden may have changed his idea of partitioning Iraq…as part of the solution.
    From…http://www.historiae.org/obama.asp
    “Remarkably, however, it seems that Biden may have cleaned up his Iraq rhetoric as part of his VP bid. At least, it is quite conspicuous how every trace of his “plan for Iraq” now appears to have been erased from his website at joebiden.com, where he now instead supports Barrack Obama’s more general argument about shifting the focus to Afghanistan. Also, at some point between April 2008 and today, Biden’s website specifically devoted to his soft partition schemes, http://www.planforiraq.com, was quietly shut down – at this site, Biden’s rhetoric had consistently focused on a tripartite Iraq to the very end.”

    Reply

  77. Mr.Murder says:

    Also, Biden still favors partition, and most Muslim leaders and non state actors see that as a threat, because reducing the state entities makes it easier for smaller Israel to dominate the region.
    In other words, they see through you guys.

    Reply

  78. David says:

    The more I think about it, the smarter this pick looks to me. And Steve also has a good post over on HuffPo. Biden won’t make the open mouth, insert foot gaffs he has sometimes been criticized for because know he will be speaking for the campaign, and he knows it. I did not like either his or Obama’s vote on the bankruptcy legislation, but Obama/Biden is still the thinking person’s team. McCain just doesn’t match up. He is not really knowledgeable, he is not really enough of a thinker, and he has never had to live in the world of regular folk, nor did his father or grandfather. His life has been in a series of bubbles (one a godawful bubble I would wish on no one). I think McCain is the one we don’t really know. I certainly don’t know anything about his worlds. I do about Obama’s and Biden’s.

    Reply

  79. Mr.Murder says:

    As for the covert operations, follow the money.
    Who appropriated it? Got Patriot Act?
    Stopping Bolton to the UN, how about eradicating his presence from all of the body politic?
    Shadowboxers don’t score KO’s, that’s in Biden’s briefs.
    Friends with serious credentials actually supported Biden going into this race for many of those reasons you stated, but look closer and see if this was leadership, or following.
    Sy Hersh had more to do with stopping it. He got the story out that covert actions were going on, and when public support started demanding something be done one guy spoke against it and the item seemed to peter off. Maybe Joe detailed something to him, but it appears only Principals were aware.
    If you want to call a plausible dalliance cloaked in strong words doing something, then you will surely not match Biden’s next round of high stakes bets.
    You should call every move as a bluff until they’ve deomonstrated a capacity for transparency beyond election cycles.

    Reply

  80. Mr.Murder says:

    Obama was foisted on people when John Kerry made him a high priority speaker in ’04.
    This entire primary season was a charade.
    Joe Biden’s less than one per cent of votes is like pissing on a wildfire to put it out. This is like a circus fire truck, what kind of clown will they roll out next?
    Run another losing campaign. This is Dukakis and Kerry rolled into one, on steroids.
    It’s historic, because it only happens every four years, and was predecided almost a half decade ago.
    They’re running a shadow cabinet of convention speakers. Jesse Jackson Jr? Why was he yelling? I couldn’t hear crowd noise to speak over.
    At a democratic household, the remote won and the democrats lost. Carter got supplanted? *Click*
    Even if he doesn’t get President, he could still become the Mayor of Simpleton. Maybe Daley would step aside there for him.

    Reply

  81. WigWag says:

    Did anyone notice that President Jimmy Carter was in a film about Hurricane Katrina on the first night of the Democratic Convention? He and Roslyn were introduced to the crowd.
    Senator Obama and his people did not permit President Carter to speak.
    It’s kind of odd, isn’t it? He’s one of two living Democratic presidents and he’s not permitted to speak. My guess is that actually, it’s unprecedented for a healthy, living ex President not being permitted to speak at his party’s nominating convention.
    I guess Senator Obama didn’t like Carter’s book, “Peace Not Apartheid.”

    Reply

  82. PissedOffAmerican says:

    “If McCain were smart he’d try and get Colin Powell as his VP”
    Really?
    Gads, Colin’s fully healed?
    Geez, you think one experience with a ripped rectum would be enough.

    Reply

  83. TonyForesta says:

    As much as I respect Hagel (primarily for his harsh criticism of the Bush governments CRIME SCENE and monumental WASTE of blood, treasure, time, and credibility in Iraq) – it is no time to offer any olive branches to the fascists, – I mean gop. There are no democrats in any high ranking positions in the Bush government, and should Obama win this November there should not be any republicans in the Obama government. Maybe in 2012 if democrats win again, and the fascists – I mean the gop find a way in the interim to truly work with democrats on ANYTHING, – maybe then there could be a possibility for Hagel or some other gop moderate in a high ranking position in the democratic administration, – but not this time.
    America needs a complete about face, a reversal of policies, and a total repudiation and condemnation of all the policies of the entire eight years of fascist Bush government and gop tyranny, lawlessness, rape of the constitution, robbing from poor and middle class Americans to feed the superrich, and wanton profiteering. America needs a total change of policy and the courage to damn the fascists in the Bush government and the gop enablers, appeasers, apologists, and fellow fascists who supported the Bush government’s catastrophic failures, grotesque mismanagement, pathological lying, perversion and betrayal of the constitution, systemic lawlessness, and wanton profiteering.
    The current gop brood with exceedingly few exceptions has not, and will never reach out to democrats on anything, or in anyway.
    Until democrats temper and defang the gop’s ruthless intransigence, belligerence, and obdurate disregard for, and lack of concern for our fellow Americans who are notsuperrich, and notwhite (which could take more than four years) there should be no olive branches, no reaching across the isle, and no republican in the Obama government. Damn the fascists in the Bush government and the lockstep partisans in the gop who enable the tyranny and wanton profiteering. Damn them all!

    Reply

  84. What Grief is Good? says:

    I heard Steve on Democracy Now too. With all due respect,
    because Steve’s a really nice guy, and obviously well-connected
    — a delicate balancing act in itself — I thought that Zunes was
    right about Biden.
    I thought that Steve was an apologist for the one-party system,
    which is pretending to be a two-party system to keep the
    masses deluded that they have a choice.
    And it’s not just the “unwashed” masses, it’s also the bloggers
    on the “left” like Buzzflash, who are so desperate that they are
    willing to take an Obama/ Biden ticket as a reason to celebrate.
    This after Biden voted to put who knows how many Americans
    into permanent debt by his support of the Bankruptcy Abuse and
    Prevention Act of March 2005. Studies have shown that a good
    percentage of Americans who file for bankruptcy do so because
    of medical bills.
    BTW: Biden’s son, R. Hunter Biden, was working as a consultant
    for MBNA, a company that issued credit cards.
    I almost think that Steve is too nice a guy to deal with the a-
    holes in Washington. Steve can find something kind to say about
    the Devil. But at this point, that’s the last thing the American
    public needs. We need someone who kicks ass and names
    names.
    I say we send POA to Congress.

    Reply

  85. ed says:

    If McCain were smart he’d try and get Colin Powell as his VP.
    He could, but he’d forfeit at the very least South Carolina, and McCain and Rove can’t afford that.

    Reply

  86. jackie says:

    Steve,
    Heard you on Democracy Now this morning. You were good. Thanks!

    Reply

  87. Zathras says:

    I’m inclined to doubt Sen. Hagel will wind up with any Cabinet post, but State would make less sense than Defense. Sen. Biden is known to be far closer to Sen. Obama now, would be physically closer to Obama as Vice President than any Secretary of State could be, is known and respected within the Democratic Party as Hagel is not and is at least as knowledgable as Hagel is where foreign affairs are concerned.
    Hagel as Secretary of State would invite persistent questions as to whether he or the Vice President really spoke for the administration on foreign policy. On the other hand, Hagel is both better informed about and more interested in the Defense Department than Biden is; opportunities for them to collide would be fewer with Hagel at the Pentagon — and reform of Pentagon procurement (as I understand it one of Hagel’s interests) needs to be a priority of the next administration.
    As I say, I doubt whether a major Cabinet position is in Hagel’s future. But in choosing Biden as his running mate, Obama has followed the precedent set by George Bush in naming someone with greater knowledge and experience to the ticket. If the foreign policy is to be run through the State Department, the Secretary of State cannot be isolated within the administration, constantly at risk of being upstaged by a Vice President with strong views of his own. Hagel would start out isolated at State, a good reason to put him somewhere else.

    Reply

  88. Gwen says:

    All WigWag is saying is that Obama is not God/Messiah only a regular human being who happens to be the best choice for President that we have. Obama is imperfect, but McCain is more so. We have to overcome the blemishes, hold our noses and vote for Obama to have any chance to getting ourselves out of the fine mess we have gotten ourselves into with Bush.
    You, WigWag, are a living breathing public service announcement, sir. I commend you for your insightful commentary informed solely by the truth, as well as it can be possibly fathomed.
    Keep up the good work, and we are all looking forward to your cogent glimpse behind the curtain.

    Reply

  89. karenk says:

    If McCain were smart he’d try and get Colin Powell as his VP. That would set the Obama camp on its ear…

    Reply

  90. Malcolm Johnson says:

    Secretary of State? Really. I always thought Hagel was going to be SecDef.

    Reply

  91. WigWag says:

    Paul, to you it sounds like “bashing” to me it sounds like the truth. It’s all a matter of opinion.

    Reply

  92. Paul Norheim says:

    Funny.
    Here is a quote from a comment I wrote about Obama`s “lack of
    experience”, 3-4 hours ago:
    “In any case, the experience-argument is getting more and
    more bizarre, when you witness what his experienced opponent
    is capable of saying – even in his lucid moments.
    Joe Biden and Chuck Hagel went with Obama on his trip to the
    Middle East. He picked Biden as his VP, and it would not
    surprise me if he asks Hagel to become secretary of state
    (instead of VP, since Hagel`s opinions on domestic issues often
    run contrary to Obama`s). In that case, there will be plenty of
    experience on foreign affairs – perhaps even too much of it.
    This really should be a non-issue.”
    Hagel or not Hagel… what we know for sure, is that WigWag will
    use it as a fresh opportunity to bash Obama.

    Reply

  93. WigWag says:

    “Joe Biden’s selection as Vice President doubles the chances that Senator Chuck Hagel will be selected as Barack Obama’s Secretary of State, which this writer considers positively.”
    Yeah it doubles Hagel’s chances from about one percent to about two percent.

    Reply

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