Implications of the Lamont-Lieberman Race

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TWN will be on WNYC’s “The Brian Lehrer Show” at about 8:40 p.m. tonight commenting on the implications of the Democratic primary contest that took place today in Connecticut.
There is a great two hour show that has been on for a while and a good roster of interview segments with other interesting political observers. Audio clips are posted, and folks can listen to the show live over the internet.
— Steve Clemons

Comments

37 comments on “Implications of the Lamont-Lieberman Race

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  7. MP says:

    “The ones who create the problems.” There are a LOT of folks who’ve contributed to the problems in the ME, not just the Muslims and the Jews. The West–largely a Christian group of folks–have an inordinate fixation on oil. Arguably, THAT is the reason we’re in Iraq, or even care about the region to begin with. Of course, in olden days, our fixation on the ME, or Jerusalem, was mostly religious, and some Christians still have that fixation. Who knows, maybe our long-standing religious fixation–the passion behind it–has simply found a new object of devotion, black gold. Or maybe the two objets have joined forces in a sort of weird energetic alliance that enhances their potency beyond what they could have alone.
    (Even OBL said something like, “Of course, we’ll still sell them oil. We’re not going to drink it.”)
    Anyway, it simply isn’t true to say that the Muslims and Jews are the ones who “create all the problems.” That won’t stand up to scrutiny. And it is incendiary to explain the situation by blaming them. Perhaps it was an offhanded comment on your part; but still, I suggest ditching it and certainly not defending it.

    Reply

  8. Carroll says:

    Well MP…..I can agree to disagree. I think you are wrong, you think I am wrong, who is right will have to be settled by history. But I am confused by what you think is out of date history or incendiary in what I said…I don’t see any references I made that fits that description at all.

    Reply

  9. MP says:

    Dear Carroll:
    Thanks for your response. I tried my best, but I think we aren’t going to agree on much of this. I’ll leave you with this. Your points one and two (below) are true, but not completely. There’s important overlap. If one is a member of a majority, it’s harder to see this overlap or the intersection between these different things. Hold on to your third sentence (“In democratic…”) and re-evaluate it from time to time. I think you’ll find it isn’t as true as you think, especially the “democratic” and “everyone” bits. As to your last sentence, I’d advise ditching it. Even a glance at an out of date history will show you that this isn’t true. It also has an incendiary ring that I don’t think you mean. I certainly hope not. Anyway, you’re a passionate, involved citizen, and that’s a very good thing.
    “Because…
    1) Religon and country are two “seperate” and different things.
    2) Ethnics and country are two “seperate” and different things.
    In democratic countries and to everyone except some Jews and some Muslims. The ones who create the problems.”

    Reply

  10. arie says:

    I wish to know more about POA too. Do you have children? Are you teaching them well so that they have children, and their children have children, onward through the ages? Because that is what only matters in the end. Many are called but few are chosen. Are you chosen, POA, to go on with your seed; or are you pissed off that Life has passed you by?

    Reply

  11. alec says:

    seriously, POA, tell us a little bit about yourself. some general background info. you know: age, gender, profession, what rock you live under…

    Reply

  12. Ike Herzog says:

    If only POA and Carrol got married like they said they was gonna, and took their honeymoon love-making over to Israel, then they would see what friendly welcoming people Israelis are, especially to newlyweds, and they would realize that they had it all wrong about the Jooos, and they would help Israel in their aspirations for the Middle East, and hear and feel the “birth pangs’ first hand, and if they were really lucky they might witness The Rapture in person up from Israel and become good Christian Zionist believers who love Israel because they have visited, as all people do who visit Israel. Try it lovebirds, you’ll like it!
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    Reply

  13. Pissed Off American says:

    Oh don’t mind Alec. He just drops in occassionally to post bullshit quotes and to stalk Carroll. David, Brian, Zeke, Alec, he’s a real multitasker, this guy.

    Reply

  14. Pissed Off American says:

    Hey Alec, tell us again how razing the Gaza farmlands helps neutralize Hamas. Or better yet, have David or Brian tell us.

    Reply

  15. sandstone says:

    noow that is getting personal…

    Reply

  16. alec says:

    who has time to keep up with carroll and the pissed off american’s incessant posting here? forget about the fact that they are both foolish and often display their lack of knowledge or real world experience. their arguments “win” on this blog, simply because they have nothing better to do than post their BS constantly.
    it’s kind of sad.
    do you guys work? if so, what is your profession?

    Reply

  17. Pissed Off American says:

    “Has POA ever posted a link showing all the “bigoted” laws and customs prevailing in the Gulf countries–as he did with that article on Israeli marriage laws, which in fact showed progress in a Western sense–to prove that the land of milk and honey had become the land of bigoted racists?”
    Actually, MP, many times I have lamented the reality and the implications of Sharia law, and the shackles it places on basic human rights and dignities. Particularly as it applies to this asshole Bush, who took one of the ONLY non-secular nations in the ME and turned it into a Shiite nightmare where people are being beheaded for violations of Sharia law.
    Listen, stop trying to attribute standpoints and opinions to me that are not accurately represented. If you can’t argue your points on their own merits, absent this straw built horseshit you keep fabricating, than just leave me out of your incessant BS.

    Reply

  18. Carroll says:

    This is too funny…from billmon
    “Update 11:20 AM ET:
    “I worry that this victory by Ned Lamont . . . will send a message across our state and our country that the Democratic Party has been taken over by people who are not from the mainstream of America. And they are going to make this not Bill Clinton’s party anymore.”
    Joe Lieberman
    er…Joe needs to get a job…and I wonder if his wife will lose her lobbying job if Joe is no longer a senator? actually if we voted all of them out we would get rid of about 1000 people alltogether…the politicans plus their wives and children with lobbist positions.

    Reply

  19. Carroll says:

    Well alex.aka Brian..aka xman
    your stalking of me is flattering but I am concerned that you are going to pop a blood vessel if you keep on getting this excited..
    jewish lobby, israeli lobby, same difference..since they aren’t registered as yet as a “foreign” lobby and their members are american jews, jewish lobby is accurate…so is israeli lobby.

    Reply

  20. Carroll says:

    MP…I guess what you are saying is you support Israel because you are Jewish? Is that your ethnic and religious tie to Israel or are you one of the evangelical christians?
    If so that is why we probably cannot agree on Israel.
    Because…
    1) Religon and country are two “seperate” and different things.
    2) Ethnics and country are two “seperate” and different things.
    In democratic countries and to everyone except some Jews and some Muslims.
    The ones who create the problems.
    Jewish Israel and Muslim republics are two peas in a pod. What is good for the goose is good for the gander, a bicycle built for two, you can’t have one without the other and so on and so forth.
    I am sure you convinced of what you have convinced yourself of and you aren’t some odious person, but I am also convinced you can’t see the illogic and hypocritical elements in your beliefs.
    You see, I will say Israel isn’t really a democracy and you will say..oh but they are better than Iran, they are better than Saudi, they are better than Egypt….or you will say but Israel has democratic elections…and I will say so did Palestine…and you will say..but they elected the wrong people.
    And I will say Israel is committing war crimes in Gaza and Lebanon….and you will say…well you have to understand they were victims and they have a right to defend themselves because of their “history”.
    And I would say, well the Palestines and some Arabs feel they are victims too…and you will say…but they want to kill jews, they started it….and I will say …but you are killing Arabs and they think you started it…and you will say..but they teach their children to hate jews…and I will say…what were the little israeli girls writting on the IDF bombs?
    And then I say I think I will stick to my brainwashing theory. Some people are like earthworms, constantly screwing themselves.

    Reply

  21. alec says:

    “and to change our foreign policy we have to have politicans who represent America not the jewish lobby.”
    it’s the ISRAELI lobby, carroll. i thought you said your criticism had nothing to do with jews, but with israel?!
    you’ve outed yourself again.

    Reply

  22. doughnutdave says:

    why Leiberman lost has more to do with the voters of Conn becoming just sick of the consequences of the Bush wmd lies and the Bush neo-con Mideast war policy. Leiberman has acted like a bigtime Bush supporter and he paid the consequences yesterday. Lamont was a nobody a few months ago, but because he was brave enough not to buckle to political pressure, he spoke his mind and the common-sense Conn voters responded.
    Hey, to ALL Conn voters — watch out for the crooked electronic voting machines that Diebold and others are foisting on us citizens. AIPAC and the war machine would love to have Joe back in office by hook or crook in November.
    Here’s from Victor Thorn’s new book, “9/11 Evil” that could turn AIPAC into a true “enemy of the American people”.
    ________________________
    Find out how Israel-firsters were actually responsible for the Pentagon’s “stand-down.”
    • Who infiltrated Air Force One and threatened President Bush on the morning of September 11, 2001 with electronic capabilities even more sophisticated than that of the NSA?
    • Identity of the true 9-11 mastermind revealed with extensive, highly-incriminating documentation.
    • Who is George Bush’s real guru (it’s not Karl Rove), and where do his loyalties lie?
    • Learn which entities operate behind-the-scenes at the Pentagon and are never mentioned by the mainstream media (and for that matter, the alternative media as well).
    • What role did the notorious “Prince of Darkness” Richard Perle play in 9-11?
    • Ascertain for yourself how Israeli-owned companies controlled corporate and government phone banks, wiretapping, instant messaging, computer equipment, and backdoors to their firewalls.
    • Who covered-up the massive spy operations which took place in America before (and after) 9-11?
    • Check out how every major player in the sale of the WTC complex to Larry Silverstein was Jewish, including the CEO, mortgage holder, owner, and negotiator.
    • Discover how the 9-11 terrorist attacks lead all the way to Rothschild Inc., and how they’ve used it to protect their “number one priority.”
    • Revealed: a cabal of alternative media figures who deliberately use obfuscation, deceit, and misdirection to maintain a well-crafted Zionist Protection Racket.
    • Who was truly behind the post 9-11 staged anthrax scare?
    • Ariel Sharon and Benjamin Netanyahu: key players in the 9-11 saga (and other terror-related events) whose role has been ignored by the controlled corporate press.
    • A plethora of damning evidence against “The Dancing Israelis,” as well as their direct link to Michael Chertoff.
    • Numerous cover-ups fully exposed in regard to suspicious activity, terrorist ties, and foreknowledge by a variety of Israeli companies.
    • Israel’s passport spy scandals, the military sale of classified weaponry to China, and direct espionage against the United States.
    • Foreign military men speak out about 9-11 being Israeli-engineered.
    • What firm was contracted to perform security at each airport terminal involved in the 9-11, and the fact that many of their former workers were employed by the IDF and Shin Bet.
    • The architect for our current perpetual war (i.e. the “Clash of Civilizations”) and his New World Order anti-Arab leanings.
    • Exposed: how Nazi symbolism has been very deceptively used to divert attention away from the real culprits behind 9-11 and our multiple wars in multiple theaters.
    • Read how Israeli Mossad operatives trailed fall-guy Arabs across several nations and states to set them up as the new “Lee Harvey Oswalds.”
    • What did Osama bin Laden really say about 9-11 and who controls the United States government?
    • Finally, a crescendo of evidence proving that 9-11 was not only an inside job executed by Zionist-loyal neo-cons within the U.S. government, but also an outside job leading directly to the nation of Israel.

    Reply

  23. MP says:

    POA: My point was merely that whatever he has done hasn’t seemed to work well enough. Maybe he needs to revise his strategy.

    Reply

  24. Pissed Off American says:

    “Perhaps Conyers needs to become more savvy about getting the word out?”
    If you don’t know WTF you’re talking about, why in God’s name do you keep jackin’ your jaws??? Tell me MP, what EXACTLY has John Conyers done to “get the word out”??? Gee, you don’t know?

    Reply

  25. MP says:

    “What other conclusion can we draw when people like Conyers are ignored and buried by the same media that is giving Lamont exposure?”
    Perhaps Conyers needs to become more savvy about getting the word out? The cynical, perhaps realist, view is that the media won’t do anything with this information because they are controlled by the corporate elite. Maybe they need better, savvier theatre to force attention. You’re also battling the fact that people don’t want to believe that things have gotten as bad as they have. The truth can be crushing.

    Reply

  26. glib says:

    The questions should be put to both Benedict Arnoldman and Ned Lamont: Have they read Conyers report? If not, then why not, as it is both their duty if they are serious candidates. And, if they have, how do they find Conyers’ charges? Would either of them support entering into impeachment proceedings if they found facts that merit such oversight of this executive branch?

    Reply

  27. Pissed Off American says:

    Amazing. Simply fucking amazing. Here we have TWO existing statesmen, both Conyers and Kucinich, that have CONSISTENTLY opposed these lying bastards in the White House. Not ONLY opposed them, but been UNWAVERING IN THIER OPPOSITION. And not only THAT, but Conyers has working tireslessly to EXPOSE these criminals for what they really are, AND to HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE. Yet we flock like sheep to whatever Trojan Horse these bastards dangle in our faces, drooling like we have just witnessed the second coming of Christ. And meanwhile, we IGNORE the patriotic efforts put forth by men such as Conyers.
    Wise up people, remember the simply axioms we grew up with. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. There is a REASON the media is giving Lamont the time of day. (Tell me, has the media acted like a responsible fifth estate these last six yearas?)
    Have you seen the media give attention to Conyers recent report outlining the EXACT laws that Bush has broken. Have you seen he media give notice to Robertt Kennedy’s recent efforts o expose the very real evidence that the ’04 election was stolen?
    So why now would that same media try to sell us Lamont? Have you noticed that the media bases Lamont’s win on the Iraq war? WELL SO WHAT????? The polls tell us that the American people are opposed to this war. What about the myriad of other iussues that not only cry for Bush’s ouster, they cry for his IMPEACHMENT and his INDICTMENT.
    This guy is a shill for the powers, and is just another political bust, sculpted for mass consumption. What other conclusion can we draw when people like Conyers are ignored and buried by the same media that is giving Lamont exposure?

    Reply

  28. MP says:

    Dear Carroll: My interest in Israel is this: I want Israel to survive, thrive, and become a peaceful and productive member of the Middle East. I feel attached to Israel because of ethnic, cultural, and religious ties. I feel that Israel has a huge amount to good to offer its neighbors and the developing world. I feel no conflict or contradiction in having an attachment to Israel and being an American citizen. I admit that I’m in a more complex situation than US citizens who have no attachment whatsoever to any other country or group. But being able to handle ambiguity is increasingly important in a world where very few things are black and white. In fact, the need to force events and people into black and white categories does violence to the life being categorized. Just my opinion. And just for the record (again) any person caught spying for a foreign country should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
    As far as your comments on Israel, I’d prefer not to dig back into the archives and dredge them up. If you insist, I’ll try to find some time to do it. Who knows? Maybe I misread you.
    In any event, there’s a huge swath of opinion on this blog that Israel and its founding are illegitimate, artificial, preposterous, and unnatural. Cock your head a different way and many of these points could be applied to many of the post-WWI Arab states, including Lebanon. But let’s leave that aside.
    Israel is also branded as racist, even by the UN at one point. Now, I have a small pet peeve here in that Jews are not a race; nor are Arabs. Whites are a race. Blacks are a race. Asians are a race. By this standard, Israel is among the most multi-racial of societies, especially in the ME. We have Caucasian Jews, Asian Jews, African Jews. Hell, even have a lot of Arab Jews if you want to call them a race (which I don’t). And yes, there is genuine racism in Israel against the Ethiopian Jews.
    But leaving that aside and going with the common usage of the term racism, I ask you: What more racist ally do we have than Saudi Arabia? Which country in this region has values more antithetical to American values than SA? In fact, it could be argued that its wealth is used, in part, to train future jihadis or, at the least, future haters of America and the West. (I’d add haters of Jews and Israel, by why be biased?) It could be argued that it was SA culture that produced OBL and those who flew the friendly skies into New York and Washington.
    (POA, if it turns out that Atta was Mossad, I will be the first to stop contributing to Israel. If this was all orchestrated by the US or even Bill Kristol, I’ll stop paying taxes.)
    Leaving aside the money we “send” to SA for oil, we have spent billions on protecting them. We have put our military in harm’s way protecting them and their oil-producing neighbors. Not just in the Gulf War, but on SA bases and on ships in the Persian Gulf. Israel took out the Liberty during a war; “they” took out the Cole in “peace” time.
    And yet, has there ever been a UN resolution condemning SA for its racism? Has anyone on this site ever said, let’s sever all ties with SA until they clean up their act? Let’s boycott their oil? Let’s throw Bandar Bush out of the country for twisting our foreign policy in ways inimical to US interests? Has POA ever posted a link showing all the “bigoted” laws and customs prevailing in the Gulf countries–as he did with that article on Israeli marriage laws, which in fact showed progress in a Western sense–to prove that the land of milk and honey had become the land of bigoted racists?
    Even you, Carroll, and I hope you can remember this, said there was “some” racism amongst the Arab states–the more extreme ones–but at least they’re up front about it. As if being a KKKer were somehow preferable to being a prejudiced liberal because at least the Klan burns ’em out in the open. The sense in this line of reasoning has always escaped me.
    But, to get to my response–finally!–calling Israel artificial, preposterous, unnatural, and racist in this context provides the philosophical and poli-sci rationale for those who argue straightforwardly that Israel’s existence should be considered contingent, expendable, a passing fancy of some kooky Jews and crooked Europeans. Suitable for blotting out if the Arab states or Palestinians or Hizbollah or Iran could just get its act together and get them some real weapons. I just don’t see any other reason for it or its mantramic repetition.
    Anyway, I appreciate your post and feel (personally) that you and I have the makings of a real dialogue.

    Reply

  29. Carroll says:

    I am listening to c-span callers on the Lamont win..and two things are clear
    1) People are so disgusted in general they are in favor of voting out everyone
    2) And unfortunately they don’t realize they are just getting more of the same.
    How do I know this?..lol ..Jim Dean, Howard’s brother and Lamont supporter was three times questioned by callers on the US-Isr relationship and the Israeli war on Lebanon and why the US was supporting Israel in all their violations of international law not to mention morality…Dean went into the typical gobbly glock sputtering about Isr’s right to exist, yada,yada,yada…he sounded a tad taken aback and uneasy however, as if he knew he was mouthing the standard crapola.
    Boy and girls, it makes not a snowballs difference in hell what the dem’s Iraq policy is ( and their policy has been to do nothing about it in the hope that it stays an issue for their benefit) or what their domestic policy is…unless our “entire” foreign policy is changed there will be nothing domestic left to worry about…and to change our foreign policy we have to have politicans who represent America not the jewish lobby.
    So let’s see what the dems do if Bush lets Israel widen the war to Syria and Iran….and how little Jimmy Dean spins that one…my bet is you won’t be able to tell any difference at all between Bush and dems..their positions will be exactly alike….they will condone any kind of slaughter by Israeli since they know it will lock up for them the 2% jewish vote.
    I still haven’t heard anyone but Hagel speak in favor of a evenhanded “American” foreign policy. I think we need a draft Hagel movement.

    Reply

  30. glib says:

    Lieberman is now, in effect, the Republican candidate for the CT senatorial seat, and will beat Lamont in the general election garnering his steadfast Democratic supporters, most Republicans, and half the Independants. Joe is a pox on our house; bipartisanship in this political enviroment is being a Republican supporter of Bush, plain and simple. Joe Lieberman = Benedict Arnoldman, now more so than ever before.

    Reply

  31. MP says:

    I don’t think Lamont is a bellwether for the country. It’s a much bluer state than the rest of the country where Dems are running. And Lieb didn’t lose by that much. In fact, he could win the general. Not likely; but he could.

    Reply

  32. Carroll says:

    I wouldn’t get excited about Lamont…he’s no different than Joe, just a different face…anyone who supports Israel’s current war on Lebanon as Lamont does can’t claim to be opposed to the Iraq war..the hypocracy in that should be self evident….
    I actually find myself hoping the repubs will put up someone in the old time conserative vein like Hagel…

    Reply

  33. bakho says:

    Joe is a loser. DC Dems will distance themselves faster than they could run from a dead skunk. Joe got taken down by activist Dems that are willing to work for candidates that support competent government instead of playing the corrupt “earmarks” game. Joe claimed to be ‘bipartisan” but became an enabler of GOP partisanship of the worst sort. Joe has always favored big businesses, the insurance industry and the monied special interests. In an election driven by a populist revolt, Joe loses. An incumbent senator should never lose a primary unless there is a scandal. Being tagged as a loser will only drag Joe down further. Lamont is not a “lefty”. Lamont is a no non-sense pragmatist. Lieberman is an elitist out of touch with the Dem base and even moreso with the Indy voters. Indy voters hate elitists on the left or the right.
    Independents are just as fed up with the corruption as the progressive Dems. The Indy voters will abandon the GOP big time in Nov which is why the GOP is in such trouble. The Indy voters don’t like the moralism of the GOP, don’t like the Iraq war, and most of all don’t like the high gas prices that are making the oil buddies of Bush super wealthy. Lieberman has done nothing for the Indy voters recenty. Why would they vote for him?

    Reply

  34. Robert Morrow says:

    May I point out a simple fact. Ned Lamont is NOT yet a US Senator. There are a truckload of independents in Conn and the Republican party is weak, and many Republicans like Lieberman, such as the Mary Matalin I saw on TV tonight.
    Lieberman is going to run as an independent, get 40%+ of the vote, maybe 50%, and get RE-ELECTED in the general election in November. Lieberman, losing now 48-51%, is actually very well positioned.
    So you lefties, whoop it up for 15 minutes, that is your allotment.

    Reply

  35. Mocu says:

    Its only suiting the House Dem would be the fall guy. Now all the 911 enthusiasts can STFU and so forth. But, it won’t work, not that it matters.

    Reply

  36. Greg Priddy says:

    Hopefully, the leading lights in the Democratic Party have gotten the message — that their supporters want a return of some common sense to US foreign policy… from Lamont’s win, and from Jim Webb’s win in Virginia.

    Reply

  37. God says:

    Good ridance Lieberman!
    Thanks to Lieberman’s and other Republican-lites’ unfliching support of GW Bush and the GOP, Americans are getting in direct response to the horrific attacks of 9/11 a burgeoning fundamentalist Shiite republic in Iraq.
    9/11 + Iraq = Bush’s Fundamentalist Persian Gulf
    Shame on you!
    Shame on you!
    Shame on you!

    Reply

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