General John Abizaid: Iraq Is As Bad As I’ve Seen It

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General_John_Abizaid.jpg
In the four years from 1941-45, America fought two wars on different sides of the earth; developed, built, and deployed atomic weapons; and thought through those important words, “What comes next.”
Nearly five years after bin Laden, despite an American occupation, Iraq is about to blow. We are still engaged in fighting — and the problems are increasing, not only in Iraq but also in Afghanistan.
Let’s just forget for a moment that some in the Bush administration advocated Israel striking Syria — and that we have a hot crisis in the Middle East between Israel and Lebanon, a bleeding ulcer in the Palestine-Israel conflict, and a brewing set of problems with both Iran and North Korea.
This exchange today at the Senate Foreign Relations Committee:

SEN. CARL LEVIN: Do you agree, General, that — with the ambassador from Britain to Iraq that Iraq is sliding towards civil war?
GEN. ABIZAID: I believe that the sectarian violence is probably as bad as I’ve seen it, in Baghdad in particular, and that if not stopped, it is possible that Iraq could move towards civil war.

— Steve Clemons

Comments

60 comments on “General John Abizaid: Iraq Is As Bad As I’ve Seen It

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  3. MP says:

    POA…your posts did get through. Again, thank you for the initial effort and for persisting. You clearly take this whole discussion very seriously, and I appreciate that.

    Reply

  4. MP says:

    What about Peter Berger’s thought that we should facilitate Iraq’s break up into three separate states?

    Reply

  5. Pissed Off American says:

    Testing

    Reply

  6. Pissed Off American says:

    Damn, in the thread above, I have m,ade a total of FIVE attempts to post a response to MP’s query. I keep getting an unusual page that I have never seen before that claims my post will appear after it is “reviewed”.
    Well, MP, heres my response. Oakley, and Annie, will just have to forgive my intrusion….
    “BTW, can you point me to links with the proof that the Ohio presidential election in 2004 was stolen? I’d appreciate it.”
    First, MP, I suggest you peruse the efforts of a TRUE American patriot and take a look at Bev Harris’ site. If nothing else, irt will give uyou an idea of the depth and seriousness of an issue that Steve and our so called “leaders” of both parties are IGNORING…..
    http://www.blackboxvoting.org
    Then, you may want to take a look at John Conyers’ efforts, and the evidence he has compiled…..
    http://www.johnconyers.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={BD0FBB2E-BAE6-4A15-9517-E9E135D8F0C7}
    And, it wouldn’t hurt for you to take a look at Robert Kennedy’s recent and ongoing research and allegations…..
    http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

    Reply

  7. Aunt Deb says:

    The Pentagon was privy to intelligence that foretold the likelihood of the present state of affairs in Iraq. There is no denying this. Nor is there any denying the fact that under Rumsfeld and Cheney this information was not simply ignored, it was actively challenged and dismissed as the product of people who had gone ‘native’, deemed untrustworthy simply by virtue of their deeper knowledge, knowledge acquired by willing exposure to their subject.
    Is there any purpose in debating the exact moment at which the ‘civil war’ in Iraq began or will begin? Is there any purpose in musing over the applicability of the term ‘civil war’ as opposed to say, ‘sectarian violence’? Of course there is; such quibbling allows the real questions of purpose and responsibility to remain unanswered while the speaker pretends to a greater responsibility: staying the course, supporting our troops, spreading democracy, blah blah blah.
    But do these hideously ill-informed folks come back to look at the stuff they initially spurned or to seek the input of those they once dismissed? No. That would be admitting ignorance happened. And besides, it’s so much more comforting to fob the failures off on history, as in “they’ve been fighting for 3000 years” or “5000” or “forever” or “since Biblical times”. This is basically the ‘whatever’ argument for refusing to look at what we did, starting in 2003. And this argument fits so well with the ‘dirty secrets about humanity’ argument, the one that says humans are basically animals, so let the fittest fight for their just awards. And of course we’ll know when that’s happening because either the right God will win or people will have colorful thumbs. You know — we’ll be given a sign.
    I am glad to see some people like Hillary Clinton beginning to question Rumsfeld in public. But the question isn’t, as she said at the end of her speech during the hearings, why should she trust Rumsfeld now. It’s why did she trust him then. Or was it just that it seemed less dangerous to give him the benefit of the doubt then as opposed to now?
    Rumsfeld still knows as little as he ever knew. And frankly, it’s really arguably the case that he knows even less. This holds true for all the Middle East Makeover Warriors. But knowing what one is doing, in this government, just doesn’t matter. All you need is The Dream!

    Reply

  8. Pissed Off American says:

    Check this out…..
    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060804/NEWS06/608040492/1012
    Notice how they do not refer to this as “Phase Two”??? Could that be because they have changed the actual definition of what Phase Two was supposed to research??? Seems to me that Phase Two was supposed to compare the ACTUAL INTELLIGENCE against the so called “intelligence” that was presented to us to justify the invasion of Iraq.On other words, it was to have investigated whether or not this piece of shit Bush LIED us into this mess in Iraq. Now, all the sudden we get this bit of horseshit…”The second section compares prewar assessments of Iraq’s unconventional weapons programs and its links to terrorism with what U.S. troops and intelligence operatives have found since the Iraq war began in March 2003.”
    And gosh, what a suprise that Bush would want to classify exactly how far up Chalabi’s ass the Neo-cons were burrowing.

    Reply

  9. Andy Verol says:

    VAGINAL CLAIRE KEIM EAST She found her image connection. With what of it the boys thought, allotting illico to him the mention very bonasse. Idem for the girls, she likes that too. Except perhaps for very that they would exchange for too. Proletarian, Claire Keim, like it is labelled without hesitating: “This term does not frighten me, on the contrary. Proletarian, like a rail, as when one feels quite deep somebody in you, ready with all to release, it is all.” Today, to thirty and one years, Claire Keim knows itself vaginal. And there, the small siren known as “to have changed”. Finished playing with this small end of flesh. “Since always, I groped this thing like a bitch without knowing too much. But, today, I have sorrow while thinking of all these years without anything of threading me large good. ” It is never “too”. Too much of this air of small bitch, with force beats of lashes. Too much of this depilated she-cat. Hollow opening which only requires to be rammed. Follower of the bondage, doped with coke, sapped as a whore of the East, smiling in the glare of facial éjac a’. It shows us very excited a photograph of it, completely open, being done battered by the good gross tail of the ex-player of foot Bixente Lizarazu on a Basque beach. “It is a pity which it refused to sodomize to me” authorizes – it to regret with half – word. Happy childhood, gone and come in the nurse. “A couple exchanger, which took me along butiner, if I can say, with them.” Wants to be and sees themselves on the jacket of the Great Damping or of Infernal Thighs, is recorded on of K7 BASF 90 minutes when it groans by cherishing its chest already quite heavy for its age, assembles strip tease “very rotted” in front of his/her buddies flap, flap, “draws aside my darling”. She makes just like the brother, her elder two years. Many shit and whisky, in particular. With a very close friend, who heats it serious, at 14 years, it is the first revolving one in a cellar with Senlis, it remembers, with almost of the regrets: “This day – there I was not as bitch as it”. Of return to it, Claire says all to her parents “I would have been in the place of my mother I will have perhaps said: It is that my daughter you want to make your large bitch initially, finished your pastes, passes your vat and after you will be made put by whom you want.” His/her mother lets herself convince by her small “clarinet” which leaves every evening to suck cocks of old man in the wood of Senlis. His/her father abdicates in front of the knowledge to make his “whore” who, in any meetings, persuades, seizes the members, not leaving any advisability of leaving without ejaculating. Since Claire Keim, they is 800 white, 230 blacks, 2 asiats’ only and 300 girls. She does not forget the friends. In its entourage, there are his cousins and her brother, who could not prevent themselves to thread it in his turn. La suite ici: http://hirsute.hautetfort.com

    Reply

  10. Pissed Off American says:

    “What does it tell us when the former military command, the realist, are saying we are headed for ruin and disaster?”
    Posted by Carroll
    That they are finally catching on to of what some of us knew 5 years ago.

    Reply

  11. Pissed Off American says:

    “Ladies and gentelmen…here you have proof positive that your entire goverment is TOTALLY INSANE.”
    Yeah, Carroll, like we needed a reminder…

    Reply

  12. MP says:

    “WASHINGTON — The White House and Congress, caught unprepared by Fidel Castro’s illness, got ready Wednesday for a possible showdown in Cuba as lawmakers drafted legislation that would pay millions of dollars to dissidents who fight for democratic change.”
    Wouldn’t it be easier to just let us buy Cuban cigars? We’d have democracy on the island in about 5 minutes.

    Reply

  13. Carroll says:

    BTW Steve…do you have any sources inside the pentagon?….There have been rumors for some time that the old time military command is revolting against the empire.
    What does it tell us when the former military command, the realist, are saying we are headed for ruin and disaster?

    Reply

  14. Carroll says:

    Ladies and gentelmen…here you have proof positive that your entire goverment is TOTALLY INSANE. I don’t need to spell the implications of this out do I?
    But let me spell out my best advice, BWTTGASO (burn washington to the ground and start over…before it is too late)
    08-03) 13:38 PDT WASHINGTON, (AP) —
    The United States plans to help train and equip the Lebanese army so it can take control of all of the nation’s territory when warfare between Israel and Hezbollah eases, the State Department said Thursday.
    The program was approved by Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to take effect “once we have conditions on the ground permitting,” spokesman Sean McCormack said.
    McCormack provided no details on what equipment the United States might provide, the training that would be conducted, how many U.S. personnel would be involved, or possible costs.
    Last week, the State Department notified Congress it wanted to add $10 million to the $1.5 million it provides annually to the Lebanese military.
    Gen. John Abizaid, who heads the U.S. Central Command, told the Senate Armed Services Committee Thursday the Lebanese armed force “needs a significant upgrade of equipment and training capability that I believe the Western nations, particularly the United States, can assist with.”
    “Before the war”, command officials visited the Lebanese armed forces for an assessment, Abizaid said, and “we saw that they needed some significant spare parts” and other help.
    On prospects for ending the fighting, he said “it will never work for Lebanon if, over time, Hezbollah has a greater military capacity than the Lebanese armed forces.”
    This would include disarming Hezbollah, already ordered by the Security Council in 2004, and establishing an international peacekeeping force to move into southern Lebanon.
    BY LAURIE KELLMAN
    ASSOCIATED PRESS…
    WASHINGTON — The White House and Congress, caught unprepared by Fidel Castro’s illness, got ready Wednesday for a possible showdown in Cuba as lawmakers drafted legislation that would pay millions of dollars to dissidents who fight for democratic change.
    “The message will be: The United States stands with you,” said Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., one of the authors. “Be ready to assert your independence. For now, administration officials and members of Congress were focused on offering dissidents cash to fight for democratic change.
    Legislation sponsored by Nelson, fellow Floridian Sen. Mel Martinez, a Republican, Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., and others would authorize as much as $80 million over two years — and pay half that almost immediately — to dissidents and nongovernmental organizations on the island.

    Reply

  15. MP says:

    Den, who is “Con-George Kotzabatis, the windy australian”?

    Reply

  16. Pissed Off American says:

    “Wtching the committee hearings on Cspan, gives me the impressiion that we have a problem with the quality of our army and marine generals these chaotic days. Abizaid, Pace,and Hayden gives me the perception that these generals are serving to protect the administration first, the nation second. This appearance of felt bias deminishes the worth of their assessments as to what is happening in the war on terror. They seem to out politicize the politicians in the committee hearings.”
    I got the distinct impression they were in the mode of covering their own asses, and were completely befuddled by the situation in Iraq. I don’t think they have a CLUE how to handle the situation, but their CIC and that dispicable asshole Rumsfeld are giving them DIRECT ORDERS on how to comment publically, and ordering them to remain in the field despite no formal battle plan. Just like that spineless embarrassment Powell, they do not have the GUTS to throw thier carreers away by walking away from what they MUST SEE as an untenable and unwinnable situation. There is some debate here as to what kind of person can lead this nation out of this mess. Well, I nominate the first general that has finally had enough of this bullshit, and takes the laudable action of telling Cheney, Bush, and Rumsfeld to go fuck themselves.

    Reply

  17. Pissed Off American says:

    Blair Delays Vacation To Seek Resolution Of Mideast Crisis, Bush Heads To Crawford
    Tony Blair today decided to delay his summer holiday for a few days to help secure a United Nations resolution that would call for an immediate cessation of hostilities in the Israel-Lebanon conflict.
    George W. Bush’s priority: Clearing brush.
    ””””
    Hey, don’t knock the mountain biking pres. Theres always the chance, God willing, he’ll meet a boulder a tad tougher than he is. And its a cinch he’ll meet two or three that are more than a tad smarter.

    Reply

  18. Frank says:

    Wtching the committee hearings on Cspan, gives me the impressiion that we have a problem with the quality of our army and marine generals these chaotic days. Abizaid, Pace,and Hayden gives me the perception that these generals are serving to protect the administration first, the nation second. This appearance of felt bias deminishes the worth of their assessments as to what is happening in the war on terror. They seem to out politicize the politicians in the committee hearings.
    An oversight commission should be created, to look into the ethics curicula being taught at our military service academys. One stunning ethics case study should be the USS liberty investigation. A counterpoint case study should be the “Shinseki affair”. Of course, the Iraqi debacle would be the core source of material for ethics cogitations. Sadly, torture, Iraqi murder coverups and the like are rich sources of material for developing a robust ethics curiculum.

    Reply

  19. km4 says:

    Blair Delays Vacation To Seek Resolution Of Mideast Crisis, Bush Heads To Crawford
    Tony Blair today decided to delay his summer holiday for a few days to help secure a United Nations resolution that would call for an immediate cessation of hostilities in the Israel-Lebanon conflict.
    George W. Bush’s priority: Clearing brush.
    http://thinkprogress.org/2006/08/04/blair-bush-vacation/

    Reply

  20. km4 says:

    Ambassador claims shortly before invasion, Bush didn’t know there were two sects of Islam
    Former Ambassador to Croatia Peter Galbraith is claiming President George W. Bush was unaware that there were two major sects of Islam just two months before the President ordered troops to invade Iraq, RAW STORY has learned.
    In his new book, The End of Iraq: How American Incompetence Created A War Without End, Galbraith, the son of the late economist John Kenneth Galbraith, claims that American leadership knew very little about the nature of Iraqi society and the problems it would face after the overthrow of Saddam Hussein.
    http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Ambassador_claims_shortly_before_invasion_Bush_0804.html

    Reply

  21. GQ says:

    News flash: Hagel (yes, R!) wants troop drawdown in 6 months. Whether this is his brain talking, or his party moving his jaws for him, it’s still a “CUT AND RUN” scenerio these NeoClowns keep bashing the Dems for suggesting.
    Hagel had a chance to vote for a less stringent withdrawal plan not too long ago. But wait, he voted against it. I used to think that Hagel was better than McCain in the honesty and “straight talk” department but it turns out that all they are is talk. He needs to put his vote where his mouth is.

    Reply

  22. Pissed Off American says:

    Ambassador: Bush didn’t know there were two
    branches of Islam shortly before Iraq war… Soon…
    http://www.rawstory.com/
    Is there any remaining doubt that we have an absolute IDIOT-in-Chief as our pretender President ?
    Posted by km4
    Its not something he NEEDED to know. After all, he has people like Bolton, Wolfowitz, Perl or Cheney to tell him; “Don’t worry about it George, they all look the same to me too.”

    Reply

  23. pauline says:

    Pissed Off American wrote:
    “Which reminds me, are any of the so called oppositional leaders asking this asshole Cheney what the duration of a “last throe” is??? Reid??? Hillary??? Pelosi??? Who IS trying to hold these bastards accountable for their words and their deeds?? HELLOOOOO???? Is there anyone out there???”
    What does it mean to call yourself a conservative republican and then vote “yes” on every bushwacker spending bill? the list of so-called conservatives that have done exactly that is literally most of the repub congress!
    what does it mean to take an oath to “uphold the Constitution” and then let bushwacker and the neocons spend billions and billions on a “war” that congress hasn’t even constitutionally declared? it seems that far left Ralph Nader and far right Michael Peroutka were both correct in 2004 (and before) to call this “war” unconstitutional!
    I wonder if the discussion and vote to constitutionally “declare war” (Article I, Sec 8) had been done, would not most in congress be guilty of treason for using false wmd info for taking us into “war”?? the congress’ “war resolution” in Oct, 2002, was, imo, a convenient way out of being personally responsible for the death, destruction and disasterous hatred for the USA that’s developed around the world. that means reid, hillary and the most of the dems are just as responsible.
    aipac has so controlled congress with our own taxpayer’s monies, the war machine has so co-opted and controlled msm (which in most cases is the same corp behemoths), I don’t think this country’s future is all that positive unless you want to have tens of millions of families working at the walmarts of the world on minimal wages with next to no benefits. this is not what I learned back in junior high on how the balance of power in wash dc was supposed to keep us from becoming a out-of-control fascist state. when bushwacker often calls for “freedom” and “democracy”, I think his real meaning is “let’s set countries up for what’s best for big corp America and best for keeping us in power.”
    my reading of the “scholars for 9/11 Truth” teaches me that the bushwacker neo-cons and the israeli mossad may have been at the basis of America’s worst day in history.
    “damn you masters of war. . .”
    “Come senators, congressmen
    Please heed the call
    Don’t stand in the doorway
    Don’t block up the hall
    For he that gets hurt
    Will be he who has stalled
    There’s a battle outside
    And it is ragin’.
    It’ll soon shake your windows
    And rattle your walls
    For the times they are a-changin’.”

    Reply

  24. km4 says:

    Ambassador: Bush didn’t know there were two
    branches of Islam shortly before Iraq war… Soon…
    http://www.rawstory.com/
    Is there any remaining doubt that we have an absolute IDIOT-in-Chief as our pretender President ?

    Reply

  25. Punchy says:

    News flash: Hagel (yes, R!) wants troop drawdown in 6 months. Whether this is his brain talking, or his party moving his jaws for him, it’s still a “CUT AND RUN” scenerio these NeoClowns keep bashing the Dems for suggesting.
    I’d love to see the word “hypocrite” and “flip-flopper” bandied around a bit the next time someone interviews this joker…

    Reply

  26. erichwwk says:

    delicvered to Brookings Inst

    Reply

  27. erichwwk says:

    POA wrote:
    “It is high time someone stood up and started speaking a bit of reality.”
    Lots of folks are. Unfortunately, few get past the filters that control the US propaganda machine.
    We are clearly headed to WWIII. Sen. Warner and McCain insist that we cannot lose in the ME. History shows that eventually the local folks DO overthrow those intent on colonizing the locals. ALWAYS. As Machiavelli pointed out centuries ago, the only way to have a successful occupation is to either allow agreat deal of self determination, or top kill off MOST ALL of the local population, ala what the US did with the Native American population. No one wants to go through life, and leave to their children, a state of slavery, whether overt, or covert.
    However, in the interim, superior (asymetric, it is being called these days) military hardware and economic resources play havoc. And of course this is not possible w/o a tremendously effective propaganda machine. (Als the thrid Reich, or the British Empire- here a review of the British Gulags in Kenyaa, much on the horizon these days might be instructive.
    So yes the FUCKING BULLSHIT (as the Aussies have no compunction to title a major headline) about what is currently happening in Lebanon, Gaza, Syria, Iran, Pakistaqn, Italy, is even more absurd and ridulous than the fabricated reasons for going to war against Iraq.
    So.. heavy propaganda to demonize “the enemy” and falsify what the Arabian world is actuallt saying.
    While, Iran itself is still far from a self made nuclear weapon (and i doubt if they have decided where to go with that, realizing that the outcome will be decided long before that time, making the decision irrelevant), ISrael currently does have between 60 and 400 nukes. Also, it must be obvious that the US response is NOT to seek a cease fire
    (instead the US circumvented the rules to expedite shipment of more “smart/dumb? bombs to Israel with the aviation fuel to deliver that) but rather to set up roadblocks and essentially veto such efforts.
    Iswrael likewise, as Warner and McCain, insist they MUST win. However, the war, being one of liberartiion and justice for the locals, by definition cannot be won.
    So at what point does the US (having been temporarily thwarted from using nukes itself- my main occupation these days) use Israel (or Israel acts on its own) to use its nuclear arsenal?
    Former Sect Albright has clearly stated the US (and Israel) position:
    What is the point of having a nuclear arsenal if you are not going to use it?
    Do the math.
    (apologies for any typos and reduncencies, as I am already late to meet someone from Los Alamos SG.)
    more this eve. And thans POA and Carrol, esp for keeping the pressure on, and to Steve for having found a way to circumvent the filters and get a small bit of reality to folks like Specter and Hagel- and yes, I do believe the dissapointment expressed here in TWN caused Hagel’s statement to Congress to be much less timid than that delivered to Congress. So, again, Kudos plus to Steve.

    Reply

  28. MP says:

    NH: “It is a disgusting habit of humans to be willing and eager to believe any scurrilous or slanderous thing they hear about someone they dislike, and the worse the accusation, the greater pleasure they gain from believing it true, and the more eager they are to believe it. This trait has been used a thousand times by a thousand liars to generate enough hatred in a billion fools to launch a thousand wars. Shame on the fools who fall for this ancient trick a second time in four years.”
    I would have to say that so much of what one reads about Israel in the comments section to this blog conforms to this description.

    Reply

  29. MP says:

    NH: “The actual statement was that Israel “should vanish from the pages of time,” i.e. cease to exist, which is pretty much what you’d expect from the President of a country that denies that Israel has a right to exist. The military overtone is purely a result of mistranslation, and the claim that he vowed anything of the sort is pure fabrication.”
    How then, do you think, he envisions this happening?

    Reply

  30. Punchy says:

    How, even in a moment of weakness, Gen Abizaid can’t be fully honest. “It’s possible”…”could”….”move towards”…civil war?
    I’ve seen fewer qualifiers on a pre-nup. God..how I’d love to hear how they describe all this in private. Aren’t Generals supposed to defend the Constitution first, Prez second? So how is this vapid obfuscation helping our country?
    It’s not. They’re defending the Prez first, country second. These bastards have failed in their duties, IMO.

    Reply

  31. John Wilson says:

    Thia ia becoming my favoite site, and “pissed off
    American” is my fave read.
    Tibetian Buddhists proclaim the the Chinese
    arrocities brought abour the ‘good of
    prividing the world with a glimpse of their religion!’…
    Bush may bring about some unsuspected
    good.
    There are Always unexpected consequences…
    What Interestng times!
    A good time to be 79 🙂 <- wry

    Reply

  32. Dirk says:

    I am no big fan of H. Reid, at least not as big as
    Steve seems to be, but I will say that his becoming an AIPAC money magnet almost surely coincided with his being named the Minority Leader.

    Reply

  33. KOJ says:

    Fair piece of thought “NH Dem”, I completely agree. On the down side, you just woke up MP/annon/David…

    Reply

  34. Pissed Off American says:

    Oh, and Iran is a *rogue* state, not a “rouge” state. Perhaps you were thinking of France.
    Posted by NH Dem
    Damn, I like this guy.

    Reply

  35. Pissed Off American says:

    “Follow-up Q: what’s the technical difference between a civil war and the conflict in Iraq now?”
    Posted by Carl Nyberg
    Media spin.

    Reply

  36. NH Dem says:

    “…Iran, a rouge state whose leader has denied the systemic liquidation of several million people and has vowed to wipe Israel of the map”
    Where this is not flat out false, it is extremely misleading. It is also the exact propaganda that the Bush Administration and those inside and outside it that want America to go to war with Iran (yes, there are such people, just as there were with Iraq) want us to believe.
    The facts are these:
    1: Ahmadinejad has never said that the Holocaust did not happen. In radical Islamist circles there isn’t exactly much of a downside to minimizing or shrugging one’s shoulders at the deaths of large numbers of Jews, or an upside to taking care not to hurt Jewish feelings. Ahmadinejad has spoken accordingly. He did, if he was translated correctly, call the Holocaust a “myth,” but only in the sense that the Boston Tea Party and Valley Forge are myths. He has also played word games, dancing around the question and implying — with plausible deniability, of course — that he doesn’t think the Holocaust happened, but saying that it’s a question worth examining (see http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/05/30/ahmadinejad_interview/print.html ). In my view it is a mistake to be much concerned about whether or not he believes the Holocaust occurred. The important thing to understand is that it is not an important thing to him. He is a confident and intelligent man, but he is not, shall we say, intellectually curious. All the important truths he knows, and knows absolutely, and the things he doesn’t know are irrelevant.
    2: The “vowed to wipe Israel off the map” canard is a product of mistranslation, willful distortion and propaganda. The actual statement was that Israel “should vanish from the pages of time,” i.e. cease to exist, which is pretty much what you’d expect from the President of a country that denies that Israel has a right to exist. The military overtone is purely a result of mistranslation, and the claim that he vowed anything of the sort is pure fabrication.
    It is a disgusting habit of humans to be willing and eager to believe any scurrilous or slanderous thing they hear about someone they dislike, and the worse the accusation, the greater pleasure they gain from believing it true, and the more eager they are to believe it. This trait has been used a thousand times by a thousand liars to generate enough hatred in a billion fools to launch a thousand wars. Shame on the fools who fall for this ancient trick a second time in four years.
    Ahmadinejad is indeed a dangerous person, more so in my view than the mullahs of the Guardian Council. He will be far more dangerous if Iran should find itself in a situation — e.g. under attack by a hated enemy — in which he can make a reasonable claim that the nation requires a unitary executive. His personality is parallel to that of President Bush in many ways — a belief in his humble origins, soft-focus populist and button-pushing nationalist rhetoric, sincere religious fundamentalism combined with a secular lifestyle, a messianic narcissism combined with a genuine belief in his own humility, reckless pursuit of glorious schemes without rational weighing of possible outcomes. Iran will regret and be ashamed of him in the long run, unless some outside force manages to make him a martyr or hero in the near term.
    Oh, and Iran is a *rogue* state, not a “rouge” state. Perhaps you were thinking of France.

    Reply

  37. elementary teacher says:

    I missed you, Mr. Valdron. If you vacate again could you please leave a forwarding address, in case the grey space aliens try to get me?

    Reply

  38. marky says:

    Den,
    Maybe I’m being too generous here, but speaking perhaps as one of those not so well informed Americans, do Canada and Europe have the surfeit of state-sponsored or affiliated propaganda that we have here.
    Maybe I’m reaching.. anyway, gotta watch a few hours of important TV shows now, then look into refinancing thru ditech so I can buy another SUV.
    later.

    Reply

  39. steve duncan says:

    War and discord is what the neocons want. There are untold billions, if not trillions, being pocketed by a slew of corporations and governments trading in arms and various other products of war. Don’t kid yourself policies are being struggled for that will end all this. The opposite is true. How else to explain agitiating for combat with Iran and Syria in the midst of everything else pinning us down in the Middle East? No, things are just as Bush and his henchmen would have them.

    Reply

  40. Carl Nyberg says:

    Follow-up Q: what’s the technical difference between a civil war and the conflict in Iraq now?

    Reply

  41. Bush = Father of Islamistan says:

    steve: Nearly five years after bin Laden, despite an American occupation, Iraq is about to blow.
    Blow?
    Well, it depends on your perspective.
    E.g:
    Nearly five years after the horrifically successful attacks organized by bin Laden, despite an American occupation, Iraq is about to ***flower** into a fundamentalist Shiite republic which has long and extremely close ties to Iran, a rouge state whose leader has denied the systemic liquidation of several million people and has vowed to wipe Israel of the map
    9/11 + Iraq = Bush’s fundamentalist Islamic republic
    WTF?

    Reply

  42. Den Valdron says:

    I’ve been poking around at TPM cave, Pissed Off American. And it’s astonishing how poorly informed, regressive and just plain dumb and mean even American progressives can be. I respect your keeping up the fight, but lordy…. It’s gotta be hard to be an American and hold your head high these days.

    Reply

  43. Frank says:

    POA you must be severly dehydrated through the actions of our leaders in this administration and in the congress. I suggest you seek some restitution by sueing first that Nurenburg quality messianic buffoon of a leader in the white house.

    Reply

  44. desiree says:

    more like a national day of mourning, billy, you jackass, and no beer, and no more Kool Aid. it’s got to be somber with prayer and forgiveness, weeping, actual heartfelt national weeping, cancel all the baseball games for what we have done. hugs all around, pats on the back, it’s alright. and after the big cry we can get back to business and try to make ourselves a better people because we need a new start, a new beginning to try to be who we thought we was.

    Reply

  45. billy says:

    What is needed now, I suggest, is great outpouring of public gallows humour so that we can better grasp our situation, alleviate the gloom, and get back to trying to extricate ourselves from this gallopping coming horrendous calamity before everybody goes stark raving mad. How ’bout some dark levity fellah’s, c’mon now, I know ye got it in ya!
    Need like a National Day of Gallows Humour to unite the country showing that we’re in this all together. All for one, and one for all sorta thing. And beer, gotta have beer!

    Reply

  46. Pissed Off American says:

    At times like this, I find myself pining away for Con-George Kotzabatis, the windy australian. Call it Shadenfreude, but I really want him to be there for the ‘I told you so.’
    Posted by Den Valdron
    Damn Den, where ya been? I could use some support here man, the wingbats are flooding the basement with Dem apologists. No one wants to get real.

    Reply

  47. Den Valdron says:

    At times like this, I find myself pining away for Con-George Kotzabatis, the windy australian. Call it Shadenfreude, but I really want him to be there for the ‘I told you so.’

    Reply

  48. km4 says:

    Let’s just send all the Christo-fascists over there so they can show us how tough they are to back up their very deluded talk !

    Reply

  49. Pissed Off American says:

    “The only way out is to plow through the Middle East and put it in total conflagration. We are almost there anyway and we can’t back down now. Destroy all our enemies in one fell swoop and let the Lord God Jesus Christ sort the mess out. Let’s drink this bloody cup to the dregs and get it over with so that Iraq is the least of their worries over there and that they come to their senses after the most hellish thrashing ever meted out in the history of God’s green earth.”
    Darn it, who let Bolton in here????

    Reply

  50. bringit says:

    The only way out is to plow through the Middle East and put it in total conflagration. We are almost there anyway and we can’t back down now. Destroy all our enemies in one fell swoop and let the Lord God Jesus Christ sort the mess out. Let’s drink this bloody cup to the dregs and get it over with so that Iraq is the least of their worries over there and that they come to their senses after the most hellish thrashing ever meted out in the history of God’s green earth.
    God Bless America!

    Reply

  51. KR says:

    Civil war, sectarian war, sectarian conflict,… whatever. Regardless of how this administration chooses to frame the state of chaos in Iraq, we might as well coin a new term for it. …
    How about FUWAR?
    ” FUWAR – (noun) pronounced: “foo-war” – a psuedoacronym adapted from “FUBAR”; a term often ascribed to a rapidly failing nation state that deteriorates towards complete civil unrest and chaos.
    Yep, he should’ve said,
    “I believe Iraq’s a FUWAR”
    ;/

    Reply

  52. marky says:

    It’s time to think big. There are a lot of borders that need to be re-considered, IMO.
    This time, the residents of the ME should control the process, to try to undo the disaster of the colonial partition.

    Reply

  53. Carroll says:

    I can only say what I said three years ago…
    We will spend billions and lose.
    The fractions that Saddam kept a lid on will fight it out until one emerges the winner.
    Iraq will be a semi Islamic Republic.
    You can’t beat 20 centuries of history.

    Reply

  54. Pissed Off American says:

    “But all that included, I think Reid has proved to be very good player of the game…….”
    Steve…..thanks for your response, however…
    It is “the game” that many of us have tired of.
    Being a “very good player of the game” is hardly a glowing testament to anyone’s integrity or constructive leadership.
    Do you think any of the homeless blacks in New Orleans are interested in how “the game” is played??? Isn’t it “the game” that gave them a FEMA chief that was grossly underqualified and inept?
    The escalating number of DEAD CIVILIANS in Iraq are certainly not prizes in a game, nor are the growing numbers of dead American soldiers.
    Isn’t it “the game” that allowed the “opposition party” to sign onto a war premised on OBVIOUS LIES and FABRICATED INTELLIGENCE.
    Isn’t it “the game” that sends munitions into Israel while we lament the losses those munitions inflict?
    For once, Steve, we agree on something. You’re right, Reid IS very proficient at “playing the game”. And for that, it is MY humble opinion he should be tarred and feathered out of Washington with the rest of these bastards that want to PLAY GAMES with America’s future and the sanctity of human life.

    Reply

  55. Pissed Off American says:

    Which reminds me, are any of the so called oppositional leaders asking this asshole Cheney what the duration of a “last throe” is??? Reid??? Hillary??? Pelosi??? Who IS trying to hold these bastards accountable for their words and their deeds?? HELLOOOOO???? Is there anyone out there???
    Beam me up, Scotty.

    Reply

  56. Pissed Off American says:

    “I’m not convinced staying is the best policy. But I’m also not convinced that leaving is the best policy either–pragmatically or morally. I was against the war before it started, but that is beside the point now. Will leaving improve the situation? Should we care if it doesn’t? (Why or why not?) What concrete steps should be enacted for a “smoothe” withdrawal? Etc.”
    Of course we should care. And you’re right, walking away while they are slaughtering each other is hardly an attractive option. But we DO need to get our asses out of there if the bloodshed is to stop. We are definitely not part of the solution there, that much is obvious. It is also obvious that through civil war, or through democratic process, the Shiite will inevitably land in control, just by virtue of their numbers. And THAT is Israel’s worse nightmare, a scenario they will NEVER allow, even if it means covert actions aimed at stirring the hornet’s nest, which I believe they are now activelly engaging in. The only way out for Israel in this ongoing middle eastern bloodbath is an escalation of hostilites throughout the ENTIRE middle east that ultimately leads to all out war against Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Iran. They simply MUST terminate the Shiites control of events in their particular neck of the woods. Do any of you seriously believe that Bush, OR Israel, wants to see peace in Iraq if it means a Shiite leadership imposing Sharia law, closely allied with and supported by Iran??? No friggin’ way.
    You want to talk solutions when the problem hasn’t even been honestly defined. Civil war works in Israel’s best interests, and Bush is in league with Israel when it comes to forming middle eastern policy. As I have said here many times, this is DESIGNED to escalate, and the goal is a “final solution” to the “muslim problem”. You ain’t seen nothing yet. The massacre in Lebanon is just the beginning. Move over Adolph, Bush and Ohlmert are climbing on board.

    Reply

  57. Nicholas weaver says:

    “The administration will not acknowledge that Iraq is a civil war until Lee and Grant have a little get together in the Green zone.”

    Reply

  58. GQ says:

    Everyone knows Iraq is bad and has been spiraling out of control since we invaded. That’s not news. What would be news is what the best course of action is.
    I’m not convinced staying is the best policy. But I’m also not convinced that leaving is the best policy either–pragmatically or morally. I was against the war before it started, but that is beside the point now. Will leaving improve the situation? Should we care if it doesn’t? (Why or why not?) What concrete steps should be enacted for a “smoothe” withdrawal? Etc.

    Reply

  59. Steve Clemons says:

    POA — thanks for the prompt, but will defer until later as I am crashing on a deadline. Just didn’t want you to think that I was ducking you. The Dem Party, though, is in rotten shape — poor leadership in general — and I think Reid is a bright spot. It could be brighter, but that is always the case. You and I differ on the Rule 21 performance, which I thought was great and helped end Frist’s pres ambitions. We are on the same page that Reid and Co. have not shown the save resolve in getting the SSCI Phase Two report. Completely same page.
    But all that included, I think Reid has proved to be very good player of the game — and to hold ground… I will debate this more fully with you in the future as I know that there is another side — but knocking Harry Reid right now just isn’t on my dance card. Believe me, his people are irritated enough with me about the post I did.
    I need to run — but more later as I want to treat your question more seriously. Maybe I’ll even turn you around, slightly, on Reid.
    All the best,
    Steve

    Reply

  60. Pissed Off American says:

    GEN. ABIZAID: I believe that the sectarian violence is probably as bad as I’ve seen it, in Baghdad in particular, and that if not stopped, it is possible that Iraq could move towards civil war.”
    Over 100 bodies a day and he is worried that Iraq may “move towards civil war”???? Jesus, when will this mealy-mouthed posturing end? When it gets to 500??? 1000????
    It is high time someone stood up and started speaking a bit of reality.
    And Steve, please, in the thread below, I made a sincere request. I really WOULD like you to describe the actions that has you so enamored with Reid. What IS it that he has done to garner your “greatest respect”??”?

    Reply

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