Eavesdropping in Bunkers: Rumors on White House Israel/Palestine Moves

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Just a quickie.
I heard a rumor recently and have subsequently confirmed through White House sources that the administration is gearing up to get serious again about charting out a new course on Israel/Palestine.
I have no idea what steps are being considered or whether this is more form than substance, but I was able to confirm that the first “deputies meeting” in more than a year is being called on Israel/Palestine policy. I don’t have the date, but my White House source confired the rumor, stating within “a couple of weeks”.
The bummer is that the State Department still does not have a Deputy. Bob Zoellick starts his new job at Goldman Sachs next week.
But WHOMEVER Condi and Dick Cheney finally choose for Deputy, MAKE SURE IT’S NOT NICHOLAS BURNS. (I hear that my opposition might actually help him to get the job. . .please, please, please DO NOT APPOINT NICK BURNS! )
More later.
— Steve Clemons


Ed. Note: I am heading to Philadelphia now to attend and speak at the American Political Science Association conference. Look for me on I-95 or around town.
— Steve Clemons

Comments

55 comments on “Eavesdropping in Bunkers: Rumors on White House Israel/Palestine Moves

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  4. Pissed Off American says:

    Would it make the headlines if a classrooom of students in your hometown were killed?
    45 kids.
    How many Americans know that Israel murdered 45 children in Gaza in a month’s period?
    How many Americans know that Israel murdered 138 civilians so that they could kill 13 alleged Hamas militants??
    Can anyone here tell me what would make Israel safer…..
    Helping the Palestian people to achieve a decent quality of life and autonomy from Israeli oppression……..
    or….
    Killing 45 kids and rationalizing it by killing 13 alleged militants……
    ??????????

    Reply

  5. Pissed Off American says:

    Read it again. Slowly……
    151 people killed……
    Of these 138 were civilians……
    Of these, 45 were children.
    45.
    Kids.
    138.
    Civilians.
    Think about it.

    Reply

  6. Pissed Off American says:

    A couple of times, as the Lebanon crime was unfolding, I opined here that I could only imagine what the Israelis were getting away with in Gaza as the world’s attention was focused on Lebanon. It appears my fears were warranted…..
    http://www.coastalpost.com/06/09/13.html
    An excerpt…..
    “While the world focused on Lebanon, the Israeli government inflicted more suffering on Palestine, especially in Gaza. July was the deadliest month since October 2004. The percentage of deaths rose 222% from the month before, injuries over 200%.
    The Palestinian Monitoring Group reports at least 151 people were killed between June 25, when an Israeli soldier was kidnapped, and August 8. Of these, 138 were civilians and about 45 children. This surge compares with the former highest monthly total of 166 in October 2004. Other sources, including the PLO, put the total closer to 200.”

    Reply

  7. Pissed Off American says:

    What the heck is this about??? Does anyone know???
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=111195
    FBI Arrests Head of Israeli Security at Atlanta Consulate
    20:59 Aug 31, ’06 / 7 Elul 5766
    IsraelNN.com) Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) agents in Atlanta have arrested the Israeli security officer at the Israeli consulate in the city.
    Details to follow.

    Reply

  8. Pissed Off American says:

    “”bullet bob” was a flat out anti-semite. steve read his posts. poa read his posts. both agreed that they WERE anti-semitic. steve removed them from his blog.”…….alec
    I agreed that ONE POST of Bob’s was seemingly “anti-semitic”. To my knowledge, Bullet Bob had ONE post pulled. Period. To me, the wording was anti-semitic. Obviously, Steve felt the same way about it. Bob apologized, and stated that it was not his intent to be anti-semitic. In my mind, the jury is still out on that, and Bob does not post enough for me to cement an opinion. But the implication that Bob’s full body of comments have been anti-semitic and removed is quite simply a gross exaggeration, if not a purposeful deception.
    If alec trusts Steve judgement on this issue of “anti-semitism”, (as I certainly do), it would be my suggestion that he ponder carefully the fact that Steve has not seen it necessary to remove any of Carroll’s posts, nor any of my own, despite the fact that both of us have been repeatedly and relentlessly stalked here by the accusation of “anti-semitism”, primarily cast by alec.
    And anyone that cares to waste the time can certainly read backwards from this point and draw their own conclusions as to the issue of ad hominem attack and insult, as well as the depth and quality of content offered by individual posters.
    Enough said.

    Reply

  9. Dan Tompkins says:

    The panel today was a great success, and I’m glad I could go.
    Peter Feaver had a chance to participate in a real discussion of bipartisan foreign policy. He made motions in that direction, for instance calling for a bipartisan foreign aid policy, and for joint effort vs AIDS. Steve omits these from his summary because Feaver quickly moved on to ignite a minor tempest with his sophistic question to the audience.
    The question, as is clear from the comments, trumped everything else that was said; and it was carefully phrased: I’m sure Prof. Feaver had worked it out in advance and knew he was relatively safe.
    It should not go unnoticed that Prof. Feaver also characterized Joe Lieberman as a reincarnation of the great Arthur Vandenberg, the great Republican internationalist. More sophistry, designed only to push a perceived wedge on the Democratic side.
    Lieberman is about as close to Vandenberg as Prof. Feaver is to George Kennan. he had a chance to say something useful, and used his time in a too-obvious attempt to promote a failed administration.
    Kudos to Christopher Preble and Steve Clemons for setting this panel up.
    Dan Tompkins

    Reply

  10. alec says:

    “Alec is just here to promote the anti-semitic theme and disrupt the actual topics”
    not true, carroll.
    like you, i am just here to share my opinion and stir the pot. from the beginning i’ve been berated and cursed by poa, you and others. why? because i don’t think the israelis are the only butchers in their neighborhood? because i don’t think that it’s fair to compare the israelis to nazis and their policies towards the palestinians, lebanese and other arabs to hitler’s “final solution”. what do you think, steve?
    i wrote another long comment last night which included a bunch of statistics with links to the cia factbook available online, but it didn’t end up posting (i got some weird note saying the post would be reviewed first). i still don’t have any idea what alicia is screaming about, but the stats were self evident and, i thought, interesting.
    “bullet bob” was a flat out anti-semite. steve read his posts. poa read his posts. both agreed that they WERE anti-semitic. steve removed them from his blog.
    i’ve even been taunted here by someone named “me & alec.” why? because i’m an “asshole?” beacuse i’m a “traitor?” because i’m “slimy?” — all names i’ve been repeatedly called by others.
    but i fear that this community is as intollerant and hostile as any that we may despise. in the end we are no better than our enemy, political or otherwise. we give shit sandwiches that we hate to eat. many of us are as close-minded and as intolerant as anyone in the bush administration, yet we refuse to see this.
    why do we have to continue the acrimony?
    why do we have to castigate and demonize?
    why can’t we respectfully share ideas?
    why can’t we agree to disagree?
    we all agree that war is hell.
    i would gladly try to uphold my end of a truce, should one be accepted.
    but if not, i’ll gladly continue to drive you all to drink with my opinions

    Reply

  11. Nell says:

    Eric Edelman? Nooooooooooo!! Another of Cheney’s minions. He was the veep’s National security adviser before becoming one of the least-trusted ambassadors to Turkey in decades.
    Why would Rice trust him? If, indeed, she’s anything more than a token and has any serious differences with that whole poisonous crowd of warmongers to begin with.

    Reply

  12. Carroll says:

    POA
    I wouldn’t worry about it…all Steve has to do is look at Alec’s post to realize not a single one of his comments have been about the topic of Steve’s articles or offered anything for discussion or any opinion on the topic under discussion..not a single one…unless you count the stats on Arab reproduction as a defense of Israel’s actions in Palestine and Lebanon. Alec is just here to promote the anti-semitic theme and disrupt the actual topics. You are right, ignore him.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    “I wish we all would just ignore the sniveling hypocrite. I recieved a copy of an email he sent to Steve complaining about my posting style, yet he is guilty of the majority of ad hominem rhetoric and attack here.I don’t mind his style of posting, as he continually underscores just how slimey the Israel apologists can be with their accusations of “anti-semitism” and back door insult couched as debate. But it really frosts my ass that he goes sniveling to Steve behind closed doors, while hurling invective here in the comment section.
    I suggest you ignore him.
    Posted by Pissed Off American at September 2, 2006 11:21 AM

    Reply

  13. elementary teacher says:

    “…Now the word “diplomacy” needs some parsing as to what it really means to our glorious “mission accomplished” leader…”
    posted by Frank
    Don’t go crazy, punkin. Repeat these words — and wave your arms real big:
    Ho-cus Po-cus Diplo-do-cus!

    Reply

  14. elementary teacher says:

    “I suggest you ignore him.”
    Posted by Pissed Off American
    LOL. That gas mask looks real nice on you.

    Reply

  15. Frank says:

    “ad hominem,…. syntax”…..you people are driving me crazy with your fancy words…Stick to the point.
    Any choice made by this administration for any position dealing with diplomacy in the ME will be pro Israel and anti muslim. AIPAC will see to that, as it is now working feverishly to insure little Joe Lieberman is reelected senator from CT.
    Now the word “diplomacy” needs some parsing as to what it really means to our glorious “mission accomplished” leader.Is it a three syllable word or is it four?? A pronunciation challenge in more ways than one.

    Reply

  16. Pissed Off American says:

    UN Human Rights Council names experts to probe Israeli civilian killings in Lebanon
    RAW STORY
    Published: Friday September 1, 2006
    Earlier today, the United Nations Human Rights Council named a panel of experts to probe Israeli civilian killings in Lebanon.
    “The United Nations Human Rights Council today named three members of the High-Level Commission of Inquiry probing what the Geneva-based body termed ‘systematic targeting and killings of civilians by Israel’ in Lebanon,” said the UN’s press release received by RAW STORY.
    “The three experts are: Clemente Baena Soares of Brazil, a former Secretary-General of the Organization of American States (OAS), Mohamed Chande Othman, a judge on the Supreme Court of Tanzania, and Stelios Perrakis of Greece, who is the Director of the European Centre for Research and Training on Human Rights and Humanitarian Action,” the press release continues.
    “The High-Level Commission of Inquiry was established in August by a resolution of the Council which mandated it to investigate the systematic targeting and killings of civilians by Israel, examine the types of weapons used by Israel and their conformity with international law, and assess the extent and deadly impact of Israeli attacks on human life, property, critical infrastructure and environment,” said the UN.
    “The resolution, which was adopted by a vote of 27 in favour to 11 against with 8 abstentions, strongly condemned the ‘grave Israeli violations of human rights and breaches of international humanitarian law in Lebanon’ and called on Israel ‘to observe the principle of proportionality and refrain from launching any attack that may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life,” said the press release.

    Reply

  17. Pissed Off American says:

    ROSA BROOKS
    Rosa Brooks: Criticize Israel? You’re an Anti-Semite!
    How can we have a real discussion about Mideast peace if speaking honestly about Israel is out of bounds?
    Rosa Brooks
    September 1, 2006
    EVER WONDER what it’s like to be a pariah?
    Publish something sharply critical of Israeli government policies and you’ll find out. If you’re lucky, you’ll merely discover that you’ve been uninvited to some dinner parties. If you’re less lucky, you’ll be the subject of an all-out attack by neoconservative pundits and accused of rabid anti-Semitism.
    This, at least, is what happened to Ken Roth. Roth — whose father fled Nazi Germany — is executive director of Human Rights Watch, America’s largest and most respected human rights organization. (Disclosure: I have worked in the past as a paid consultant for the group.) In July, after the Israeli offensive in Lebanon began, Human Rights Watch did the same thing it has done in Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Bosnia, East Timor, Sierra Leone, Congo, Uganda and countless other conflict zones around the globe: It sent researchers to monitor the conflict and report on any abuses committed by either side.
    It found plenty. On July 18, Human Rights Watch condemned Hezbollah rocket strikes on civilian areas within Israel, calling the strikes “serious violations of international humanitarian law and probable war crimes.” So far, so good. You can’t lose when you criticize a terrorist organization.
    But Roth and Human Rights Watch didn’t stop there. As the conflict’s death toll spiraled — with most of the casualties Lebanese civilians — Human Rights Watch also criticized Israel for indiscriminate attacks on civilians. Roth noted that the Israeli military appeared to be “treating southern Lebanon as a free-fire zone,” and he observed that the failure to take appropriate measures to distinguish between civilians and combatants constitutes a war crime.
    The backlash was prompt. Roth and Human Rights Watch soon found themselves accused of unethical behavior, giving aid and comfort to terrorists and anti-Semitism. The conservative New York Sun attacked Roth (who is Jewish) for having a “clear pro-Hezbollah and anti-Israel bias” and accused him of engaging in “the de-legitimization of Judaism, the basis of much anti-Semitism.” Neocon commentator David Horowitz called Roth a “reflexive Israel-basher … who, in his zest to pillory Israel at every turn, is little more than an ally of the barbarians.” The New Republic piled on, as did Alan Dershowitz, who claimed Human Rights Watch “cooks the books” to make Israel look bad. And writing in the Jewish Exponent, Jonathan Rosenblum accused Roth of resorting to a “slur about primitive Jewish bloodlust.”
    Anyone familiar with Human Rights Watch — or with Roth — knows this to be lunacy. Human Rights Watch is nonpartisan — it doesn’t “take sides” in conflicts. And the notion that Roth is anti-Semitic verges on the insane.
    But what’s most troubling about the vitriol directed at Roth and his organization isn’t that it’s savage, unfounded and fantastical. What’s most troubling is that it’s typical. Typical, that is, of what anyone rash enough to criticize Israel can expect to encounter. In the United States today, it just isn’t possible to have a civil debate about Israel, because any serious criticism of its policies is instantly countered with charges of anti-Semitism. Think Israel’s tactics against Hezbollah were too heavy-handed, or that Israel hasn’t always been wholly fair to the Palestinians, or that the United States should reconsider its unquestioning financial and military support for Israel? Shhh: Don’t voice those sentiments unless you want to be called an anti-Semite — and probably a terrorist sympathizer to boot.
    How did adopting a reflexively pro-Israel stance come to be a mandatory aspect of American Jewish identity? Skepticism — a willingness to ask tough questions, a refusal to embrace dogma — has always been central to the Jewish intellectual tradition. Ironically, this tradition remains alive in Israel, where respected public figures routinely criticize the government in far harsher terms than those used by Human Rights Watch.
    In a climate in which good-faith criticism of Israel is automatically denounced as anti-Semitic, everyone loses. Israeli policies are a major source of discord in the Islamic world, and anger at Israel usually spills over into anger at the U.S., Israel’s biggest backer.
    With resentment of Israeli policies fueling terrorism and instability both in the Middle East and around the globe, it’s past time for Americans to have a serious national debate about how to bring a just peace to the Middle East. But if criticism of Israel is out of bounds, that debate can’t occur — and we’ll all pay the price.
    Back to Human Rights Watch’s critics. Why waste time denouncing imaginary anti-Semitism when there’s no shortage of the real thing? From politically motivated arrests of Jews in Iran to assaults on Jewish children in Ukraine, there’s plenty of genuine anti-Semitism out there — and Human Rights Watch is usually taking the lead in condemning it. So if you’re bothered by anti-Semitism — if you’re bothered by ideologies that insist that some human lives have less value than others — you could do a whole lot worse than send a check to Human Rights Watch.
    Copyright 2006 Los Angeles Times

    Reply

  18. Pissed Off American says:

    “You decidedly did *not* report the per capita GDP of Israel, Gaza *and* the West Bank, nor did you originally cite your sources for all to inspect. I did provide that comparative information, along with other contextual data –and their sources. In response, you termed my contribution ‘obfuscation’ — the very contribution for which you subsequently claimed credit. Moreover, you did that in the context of an ad hominem attack against a fellow contributor to this blog. I have challenged you to revise your statements in the light of corrective information. Will you now do so?”
    Alicia Hill
    I wish we all would just ignore the sniveling hypocrite. I recieved a copy of an email he sent to Steve complaining about my posting style, yet he is guilty of the majority of ad hominem rhetoric and attack here.I don’t mind his style of posting, as he continually underscores just how slimey the Israel apologists can be with their accusations of “anti-semitism” and back door insult couched as debate. But it really frosts my ass that he goes sniveling to Steve behind closed doors, while hurling invective here in the comment section.
    I suggest you ignore him.
    And this “alec and me” bullshit ain’t helping much.

    Reply

  19. me & alec says:

    alec, man, I apologize for that crap I said. I didn’t know you was from New York, or I’da kept my mouth shut. Just chill, pal, I got carried away and lost it a bit because of your ridicule which was justified being that I did not get much of an education which is my own fault. But I try to write the way stuff comes outta my head and don’t pay attention to syntax, and truthfully had to look the word up to know what you were educating me about. I’ll try harder to get the words in the correct order, but without much education I just write like I talk, un-educated like. I still wanna be your friend and back you up when the anti-semites give you trouble. It’ll always be me and you, alec, and in my way I hope to put an exclamation point on all you say because you’re one smart dude, bro. me & alec, we’re in this together, bro. Sorry about that unfortunate outburst for which you set me straight. That’s what friends are for. Thanks, bud.

    Reply

  20. me & alec says:

    alec, man, I apologize for that crap I said. I didn’t know you was from New York, or I’da kept my mouth shut. Just chill, pal, I got carried away and lost it a bit because of your ridicule which was justified being that I did not get much of an education which is my own fault. But I try to write the way stuff comes outta my head and don’t pay attention to syntax, and truthfully had to look the word up to know what you were educating me about. I’ll try harder to get the words in the correct order, but without much education I just write like I talk, un-educated like. I still wanna be your friend and back you up when the anti-semites give you trouble. It’ll always be me and you, alec, and in my way I hope to put an exclamation point on all you say because you’re one smart dude, bro. me & alec, we’re in this together, bro. Sorry about that unfortunate outburst for which you set me straight. That’s what friends are for. Thanks, bud.

    Reply

  21. me & alec says:

    alec, man, I apologize for that crap I said. I didn’t know you was from New York, or I’da kept my mouth shut. Just chill, pal, I got carried away and lost it a bit because of your ridicule which was justified being that I did not get much of an education which is my own fault. But I try to write the way stuff comes outta my head and don’t pay attention to syntax, and truthfully had to look the word up to know what you were educating me about. I’ll try harder to get the words in the correct order, but without much education I just write like I talk, un-educated like. I still wanna be your friend and back you up when the anti-semites give you trouble. It’ll always be me and you, alec, and in my way I hope to put an exclamation point on all you say because you’re one smart dude, bro. me & alec, we’re in this together, bro. Sorry about that unfortunate outburst for which you set me straight. That’s what friends are for. Thanks, bud.

    Reply

  22. me & alec says:

    alec, man, I apologize for that crap I said. I didn’t know you was from New York, or I’da kept my mouth shut. Just chill, pal, I got carried away and lost it a bit because of your ridicule which was justified being that I did not get much of an education which is my own fault. But I try to write the way stuff comes outta my head and don’t pay attention to syntax, and truthfully had to look the word up to know what you were educating me about. I’ll try harder to get the words in the correct order, but without much education I just write like I talk, un-educated like. I still wanna be your friend and back you up when the anti-semites give you trouble. It’ll always be me and you, alec, and in my way I hope to put an exclamation point on all you say because you’re one smart dude, bro. me & alec, we’re in this together, bro. Sorry about that unfortunate outburst for which you set me straight. That’s what friends are for. Thanks, bud.

    Reply

  23. Carroll says:

    It’s time for “out-of-the-box” agendas. The Hillary’s and McCain’s of the world will shove us further into the ditch.
    Posted by Easy E at September 2, 2006 02:48 AM
    AMEN Brother…it is time for out of the box.

    Reply

  24. Easy E says:

    OFF SUBJECT
    What’s happening in Mexico should be happening in the U.S.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14626489/
    What just happened in Salt Lake City with Mayor Anderson is a ray of hope.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGgKyYsNDiE&eurl=
    Let’s see some bignamers (Dems, Repubs, Inde’s, who cares what flavor)get some balls and take on the neocon ideologues that have hijacked the constitution and stolen our democracy. Only then will the Israeli/Palestinean dilemma get back on the right path. Until we start seeing some real balls and spine in U.S. political and institutional leadership, all bets are off. It’s time for “out-of-the-box” agendas. The Hillary’s and McCain’s of the world will shove us further into the ditch.

    Reply

  25. alec says:

    bizarre, alicia.
    didn’t we go over this and over this and over this like 10 threads ago. i’m happy to do so again if you want.
    by the way i did link to the cia factbook
    https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/we.html#Econ
    here we go again:
    WEST BANK
    PER CAPITA GDP $1,100
    POPULATION GROWTH RATE +3.06%
    GAZA
    https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/gz.html
    PER CAPITA GDP $600
    POPULATION GROWTH RATE +3.71%
    ISRAEL
    PER CAPITA GDP $24,600
    POPULATION GROWTH RATE +1.18%
    JORDAN
    PER CAPITA GDP $4,700
    POPULATION GROWTH RATE +2.49%
    SYRIA
    PER CAPITA GDP $3,900
    POPULATION GROWTH RATE +2.3%
    UNITED STATES
    https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html
    PER CAPITA GDP $41,800
    POPULATION GROWTH RATE +.91%
    so, what’s your point, alicia hill?
    promise me we’ll never have to go over this again.

    Reply

  26. elementary teacher says:

    “…i’ve got nothing to hide….” posted by alec
    “… my “hitler lite” arguments were not arguments at all, but merely the latest statistics on the population growth rate and the per capita gdp of israel, gaza and the west bank…” posted by alec
    You decidedly did *not* report the per capita GDP of Israel, Gaza *and* the West Bank, nor did you originally cite your sources for all to inspect. I did provide that comparative information, along with other contextual data –and their sources. In response, you termed my contribution ‘obfuscation’ — the very contribution for which you subsequently claimed credit. Moreover, you did that in the context of an ad hominem attack against a fellow contributor to this blog. I have challenged you to revise your statements in the light of corrective information. Will you now do so?
    Alicia Hill

    Reply

  27. Pissed Off American says:

    Gee, I guess I gotta travel to Israel so I can advance the opinion that carpet bombing Lebanon with clusterbombs, that spread hundreds of thousands of bomblets, is an act of genocide, DESIGNED to kill civilians even after the cease fire took place.
    Maybe, instead, some of these asses here that defend Israel’s actions should travel to Gaza and visit a hospital or two. Or a morgue.

    Reply

  28. alec says:

    “me & alec”
    ya’ ain’t got no syntax and ya’ ain’t got no brains.
    btw, i was born and raised in the bronx and i currently live in the east village of manhattan.
    …and if you need help reading it, i’ll show you my number up real close.
    unlike you, i’ve got nothing to hide.

    Reply

  29. me & alec says:

    hey alec buddy ole pal. Read it like a Noo Yawker. We ain’t got no syntax, but we gots your numba, bub.

    Reply

  30. me & alec says:

    hey alec buddy ole pal. Read it like a Noo Yawker. We ain’t got no syntax, but we gots your numba, bub.

    Reply

  31. me & alec says:

    hey alec buddy ole pal. Read it like a Noo Yawker. We ain’t got no syntax, but we gots your numba, bub.

    Reply

  32. me & alec says:

    hey alec buddy ole pal. Read it like a Noo Yawker. We ain’t got no syntax, but we gots your numba, bub.

    Reply

  33. Marky says:

    By the way, I suppose if one finds these Rabbis’ comments acceptable, then there is no problem if I say that I want no drop of American blood spilled, no penny of American money spent supporting the Israeli government?

    Reply

  34. Marky says:

    Via Billmon, here are the humanitarian thoughts of Modern Orthodox rabbis in Israel:
    “America’s main organization of Modern Orthodox rabbis is calling on the Israeli military to be less concerned with avoiding civilian casualties on the opposing side when carrying out future operations . . .
    Because Hezbollah “puts Israeli men and women at extraordinary risk of life and limb through unconscionably using their own civilians, hospitals, ambulances, mosques . . . as human shields, cannon fodder, and weapons of asymmetric warfare,” the rabbinical council said in a statement, “we believe that Judaism would neither require nor permit a Jewish soldier to sacrifice himself in order to save deliberately endangered enemy civilians.” (emphasis added

    Any questions, class?
    Remember, the word “Untermenschen” will be on the next quiz.

    Reply

  35. sdemetri says:

    Watching war crimes unfold in Lebanon or Gaza is a good justification for Carroll’s rage. Calling out the parties committing war crimes is not anti-semetic.
    God giving out land is debatable.

    Reply

  36. alec says:

    “me & alec”:
    you need to work on your sarcasm AND your syntax.

    Reply

  37. me & alec says:

    I’m with alec on this. How dare Carroll say anything about how US tax dollars are doled out without ever having been to Israel, Lebanon, or Judea and Samaria! You sure got some chutzpah , Carroll. And put Israel back behind UN borders! That’s a laugh after having conquered those ancient homelands, and expending much blood and US tax dollars to settle Judea and Samaria, Carroll wants God’s chosen people to give back land that God himself gave the Israelites. Better take that up with God, Carroll.

    Reply

  38. me & alec says:

    I’m with alec on this. How dare Carroll say anything about how US tax dollars are doled out without ever having been to Israel, Lebanon, or Judea and Samaria! You sure got some chutzpah , Carroll. And put Israel back behind UN borders! That’s a laugh after having conquered those ancient homelands, and expending much blood and US tax dollars to settle Judea and Samaria, Carroll wants God’s chosen people to give back land that God himself gave the Israelites. Better take that up with God, Carroll.

    Reply

  39. me & alec says:

    I’m with alec on this. How dare Carroll say anything about how US tax dollars are doled out without ever having been to Israel, Lebanon, or Judea and Samaria! You sure got some chutzpah , Carroll. And put Israel back behind UN borders! That’s a laugh after having conquered those ancient homelands, and expending much blood and US tax dollars to settle Judea and Samaria, Carroll wants God’s chosen people to give back land that God himself gave the Israelites. Better take that up with God, Carroll.

    Reply

  40. me & alec says:

    I’m with alec on this. How dare Carroll say anything about how US tax dollars are doled out without ever having been to Israel, Lebanon, or Judea and Samaria! You sure got some chutzpah , Carroll. And put Israel back behind UN borders! That’s a laugh after having conquered those ancient homelands, and expending much blood and US tax dollars to settle Judea and Samaria, Carroll wants God’s chosen people to give back land that God himself gave the Israelites. Better take that up with God, Carroll.

    Reply

  41. Carroll says:

    Posted by alec at September 1, 2006 02:02 PM
    The Israeli UN borders are the LEGAL borders..don’t like it?…take it up with the UN.

    Reply

  42. Carroll says:

    You don’t need gas ovens to commit genocide. Get your diplomats working faster. Uncle nazi and nephew nazi are still at it.
    BBC News
    Last Updated: Friday, 1 September 2006, 00:56 GMT 01:56 UK
    Palestinian despair as donors meet
    By Alan Johnston
    BBC News, West Bank
    Despondency for the jobless as the Palestinian economy wastes
    Diplomats and aid donors are gathering in the cool and the calm of a conference centre in Stockholm to consider the humanitarian crisis in the Palestinian Territories.
    And a world away, in the heat and the clamour of Gaza’s alleyways, Imad Marzouk is living that crisis.
    The stumps that are all that remain of his legs are still heavily bandaged.
    He remembers doing ordinary things on an ordinary evening. He had just propped his bike up against a wall on a street in Gaza City, and started to chat on his mobile phone.
    All our dreams are cancelled – everything’s cancelled – our priorities are feeding ourselves and just living
    But then out of nowhere came an explosion – and horror, and agony.
    An Israeli rocket had torn both his legs off.
    Sitting in his wheelchair after several operations he said: “I’m looking at myself. I’m looking at my legs, and at what I’ve become. I didn’t have any weapon to go and shoot at Israelis. I never did anything.”
    It seems that the rocket was meant for a nearby group of militants.
    Sustained attack
    The humanitarian consequences of the intensified conflict will be high on the Stockholm conference’s agenda.
    Since late June the Israelis have put Gaza under sustained and at times intense military pressure.
    There have been more than 270 air strikes, numerous ground raids and many days of incessant artillery fire.
    War has left its imprint everywhere
    The United Nations says that $30m worth of damage has been done in this poverty stricken place.
    The Israelis are trying to counter the militants who fire crudely made rockets from Gaza randomly into Israeli towns and villages. And the army is also trying to find and free an Israeli soldier captured in late June.
    The Hamas government has suggested truce talks, and has proposed swapping the soldier for some of the thousands of Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails.
    But there has been no deal so far, and the killing goes on.
    The casualty figures show how very one-sided the recent conflict has been.
    More than 200 Palestinians have died – including many civilians – and hundreds more have been injured. One Israeli soldier has been killed – shot accidentally by his own side. Eleven Israeli civilians have been wounded in rocket fire from Gaza.
    Darkness
    In the course of the campaign thousands of people have fled their homes to escape Israeli artillery shells or advancing tanks.
    But even for those unscathed by the violence, Gaza has become a darker place.
    The Israelis bombed its only power plant, and now there is as little as six hours of electricity a day.
    On many nights the alleyways of the refugee camps are lost in complete darkness. Behind the doors of crowded homes, life goes on by candlelight.
    And on top of the stifling summer heat, Gazans are enduring serious water supply problems.
    ‘Yoke of anarchy’
    But even the Hamas government spokesman, Ghazi Hamad, has conceded that not all Gaza’s problems can be blamed on the Israelis.
    In a recent article he seemed to despair at the very poor law-and-order situation.
    There are numerous militia groups and powerful clans that operate beyond the control of the weak security forces.
    “Gaza is suffering under the yoke of anarchy and the swords of thugs,” wrote Mr Hamad.
    “We’re used to blaming our mistakes on others. [But] what is the relationship between the chaos, anarchy, lawlessness, indiscriminate murders, theft of land, family rivalries… and the occupation?” he asked.
    ‘Strangled’
    Meanwhile, the Palestinian economy is being brought to its knees.
    Business activity of all kinds is continually hampered by the growing number of checkpoints and barriers and controls across the occupied territories.
    Rubbish mounts after municipal workers go on strike
    Israelis say they are securing themselves against attack – but Palestinians are convinced that they are being deliberately strangled.
    On top of this, Israel, the European Union and America are preventing all funds reaching the Hamas government because it refuses to renounce violence and accept Israel’s right to exist.
    The administration is so broke that it has been able to pay its workers almost nothing for six months. The entire civil service – which normally supports a quarter of the population – is being forced into poverty.
    Like many government workers in the West Bank city of Ramallah, Nidha Younis is eating through the last of her savings. She is fending off a landlord who is demanding rent that she cannot pay, and all the time she slides deeper into debt.
    “All our dreams are cancelled,” she said. “Everything’s cancelled. Our priorities are feeding ourselves and just living.”
    The United Nations puts the poverty rate in Gaza at close to 80%. And the spokeswoman for the UN agency monitoring humanitarian affairs, OCHA, had this message for the donors at the Stockholm conference.
    “What we’ve seen in the last year is a pattern of serious decline. Something must be done to avert a real, real disaster.”

    Reply

  43. marky says:

    Touche,
    Score one for alec.
    I agree with Punchy—the US has no credibility.
    It seems to me that a conference on a Mideast border issue ought to be brokered by Mideast countries. Shocking idea, no?
    Seriously, what does it matter to people in the US where the border of Israel is? Not one whit.
    Wherever the two (or more sides) can agree on is fine—we have no security interest in having the border in a certain location.

    Reply

  44. alec says:

    carroll wants to be in charge. hmm… let’s see…
    your middle east policy would be:
    “Put Isr back behind their original UN borders
    Cut off their USA aid
    Give half of it to Palestine
    And the other half to Lebanon”
    wow. where to begin…
    how about the fact that i remember you saying on this very blog that you’ve NEVER EVEN VISITED israel, lebanon, the occupied territories, or the greater middle-east (you said something about an extended vacation in turkey).
    and now you profess to know what’s best for a part of the world in which you’ve never stepped foot? you’re going to pontificate about borders you’ve never seen?! make generalizations about people and cultures based on no first hand experience and with no ability (that i’ve seen here) to respectfully engage those who disagree with you and don’t share your worldview? you’re going to make grand pronouncements with nary a hint of room for nuance or self doubt?
    we already have that type of leader, carroll, and his name is george w. bush.

    Reply

  45. Punchy says:

    Mr. Clemons, the mere thought of the US brokering ANYTHING between Palestine and the Iz is laughable. The Muslims and Arabs just watched us help Israel bomb the bejesus out of Lebanon. To say we lack the credibility to negotiate is puting it mildly.
    Hell, we lack credibility in Europe, East Asia, Africa….were DO we have cred in this world?

    Reply

  46. Judy says:

    You are being very anti-semetic, Carol.

    Reply

  47. Carroll says:

    I wanna be in charge…
    Put Isr back behind their original UN borders
    Cut off their USA aid
    Give half of it to Palestine
    And the other half to Lebanon
    Israel doesn’t want to play by the rules of the world? Fine. Make them go to their room and stay there. And for supper they can have a cup of Lebanon oil slick and a plate of cluster bombs.

    Reply

  48. mlaw230 says:

    er….. I think what Steve is saying is that he does support Burns and that the best way to help him among the “War R Us” crowd, is to vehemently oppose his selection.

    Reply

  49. Reader says:

    Interesting report to the UNSC referenced in the Sydney Morning Herald.
    * * * * *
    New nuclear find as Iran defies UN
    Email Print Normal font Large font William Broad and David Sanger in Vienna
    September 2, 2006
    But in the latest find, the nuclear fingerprint of the particles did not match those of the other samples, said an official familiar with the inspections.
    The agency’s six-page report to the UN Security Council on Thursday withheld judgement on where the material came from and whether it could be linked to a secret nuclear program.
    Iran says its nuclear program is designed only for the production of energy. However, this would use uranium enriched at far lower levels than the sample described in the report. As expected, the report confirmed that Iran had continued producing enriched uranium at its vast Natanz facility but only on a small scale and at relatively low levels.
    http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/new-nuclear-find-as-iran-defies-un/2006/09/01/1156817096127.html

    Reply

  50. John says:

    Whatever the intention here, we can already consign it to the long list of administration failures. Israel is the only party the US will talk to, and even they are looking askance at advice coming from Washingtons. I use the plural, because who knows when the admnistration will be able to define a single position, much less pursue it. What should happen here is that Bush turn all responsibility over to Javier Solana and agree to fully support whatever the EU negotiates. Washington has no credibility either as an honest or as an effective broker.

    Reply

  51. Corinne says:

    Thanks, Steve.

    Reply

  52. Bullet Bob says:

    Steve, are you or anyone else here, afraid of this guy because, among other things, he is a CFR member?

    Reply

  53. Steve Clemons says:

    Corinne — Thanks for your note. I have been told that in the battle among those who aspire to be Deputy, Nicholas Burns — who is frequently the person Condi Rice sends to be the “adult supervision” overseeing John Bolton when hyper-sensitive UN matters are being debated — was her preferred choice to succeed Bob Zoellick. However, the Cheney crowd does not trust him — and John Bolton has started numerous “whisper campaigns” against him in the past.
    Others that have been considered include Deputy Treasury Secretary Robert Kimmitt — but he’d have a tough time getting confirmed right now, though I personally believe he’d be highly effective in the job. Another is Philip Zelikow, currently the Secretary’s Counselor — but he’s considered to be snarkily arrogant and the civil service staff have told Secretary Rice that such a development would produce guerilla warfare against him inside the State bureaucracy. Bolton was floated for a nanosecond and squashed. Eric Edelman is the dark horse candidate right now — trusted simultaneously by Rice and by Cheney.
    But the bottom line is that progressive appreciation for Nick Burns — who may be the last guy standing in this effort to get a Deputy — does not help him.
    The best thing we can do is characterize R. Nicholas Burns as a pugnacious, duplicitous, Jesse Helms-loving bomb-them-and-get-it-over nationalist.
    Nick Burns is the WRONG GUY for the job.
    Look, his favorability ratings in the White House are already pointing up.
    — Steve Clemons

    Reply

  54. Corinne says:

    Ok, I’m confused. Why are you so opposed to Nick Burns?

    Reply

  55. Ben Weissman says:

    That’s right, Steve. Nick Burns, in everyting he has ever done or uttered about Israel’s Palestinian problem, has sounded like a clone of Elliot Abrams in every respect! It would be just crazy to have this deputies meeting with an opinion coming out of State that is identical to the one coming from both the White House and the VP’s office!

    Reply

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